And we all know, that if that's the way the computer does things, then there's nothing anyone can do about it. I was told that one of the benefits of attending HP World and IPROF is the opportunity to meet people firsthand, rather than having to go thru regular channels, and hope for the best, which in this case, I hope we haven't gotten to, yet. I also hope that one of the list members knows someone with a clearer grasp of reality and a sense of customer service. /soapbox Having been exposed to the joys of automotive insurance rating algorithms, and getting to see both their sophistication and complexities, I understand that not every employee with a phone on their desk can explain * why * this number is my rating, and how that number was arrived at. But there is an explanation, and the only reason not to let people know how they are rated seems to be for fear that they will 'cheat the system', by getting the most salient values changed in favor of the one rated. I have had co-workers request that their policy be rewritten a certain way, and their insurance agents complain when the rewrite meaningfully lowers their premiums, because they must be doing something wrong... A more extreme unfairness is in credit rating systems, as I discovered when investigating mortgages, and was told where I appeared on any one of three charts, but no one would tell me why, although it was clearly someone else's doing, and not the responsibility of the company I had on the phone... insert std disclaimers