<<Wirt's small business examples are probably not using a high-end NetServer as their standard of comparison; they're looking at something lower down on the scale. Note that NUWC-KPT just took delivery of some pretty nice Micron PC servers; think the base price was something like $7K... although think they were going to add some more memory after receipt; and that price probably includes a pretty good GSA discount....>> I suspect that they're going to add more than that.... As a reality check, Micron's current "Vetix Lxi" server lists for $4599. That price includes one 200MHz PPro CPU, 64MB RAM, one 4GB hard drive, integrated video, SCSI, and 10/100 Ethernet, plus a 10-user copy of NTS4 and an "uninstalled" (huh?) copy of LANDesk Server Manager. It also includes one year of next-day on-site hardware support and three OS/Network support incidents. It does *not* include: Power-source backup, i.e. a UPS Power-distribution backup, i.e. redundant power supplies Storage backup, i.e. any type of RAID In fact, basic backup; the base "server" has no backup device (DDS, Travan, MO) of any kind. System installation or setup Adding these items costs as follows: Additional 64MB RAM (128MB total) - $480 700VA UPS - $389 Travan TR4 backup drive - $259; or DDS2 for $749 Second 4GB disk drive - $800 Server setup - $799 Upgrade 1st year support to 4-hour response (8AM-5PM) - $299 Pre-installed Oracle 7 Workgroup Server (certainly not *my* choice for a database, but that's what Micron has listed) - $2075 for a 5-user setup (the minimum allowed) So, getting this $4600 server up to a truly usable and reliable machine able to handle a few bumps, and with (oh, by the way) a database, more than doubles the price. And it still doesn't have redundant power supplies (not available) or hardware storage redundancy (available for another $800 or so). By the time this machine is configured as something that can be called a reliable, bet-your-business-quality machine, it's going to be over $12,000. Of course, some of these features that I claim are critical, or even important, are missing from the 9x8 boxes too. "OK, Steve, how do you justify insisting on them for the PC server but letting them slide on the HP box?" Basically, it comes down to platform reliability; an Intel/NT box is simply a lot more likely to eat itself, possibly taking your data with it, than an HP MPE machine. For example: having gone through 3.1 power supplies on two machines in 3 years (the .1 was a failed fan), I think redundant power is a necessity on a gotta-have-it PC server. But I've never seen, or even heard of, an MPE box being down due to a failed power supply (which means that the three of you who have had such failures should now speak up). Similarly, how often to we run CHKDSK on our MPE boxes to fix problems in the file system caused by errant applications or inadvertent shutdowns? Now, there are some definite problems with the $14,000 "starter system" 918 configuration: the 32MB RAM is probably inadequate for a "real" machine, as is the 2GB disk (I wonder if that has been/is being changed to 4GB?). But I still think that the 918 is within a few kilobucks of any legitimately-comparable PC-based server, rather than twice the price. Steve