pace Christian, who is obviously the man on the spot, I'm still not convinced that rejection of the constitution by France & the Netherlands is a body-blow for the EU. There was no real consensus beforehand that a full-blown constitution was totally necessary, and there was widespread indifference to the monstrosity Giscard - or rather his minions - came up with. There were alternatives - a straightforward series of treaties tidying-up loose ends from 1956, and sorting out new rules for accession and voting in an expanded community would probably have been better, and are what will happen now. Referendums on a given topic are almost always actually polls on the popularity of the government of the day; I'm not convinced that referendums even on "big" issues are ever justifiable - we outsource the reading of treaties to politicians, who outsource it to civil servants. We pay the dogs, why should we bark ourselves? I note that the German constitution expressly forbids referendums, but they have a particular recent history, I suppose. Another reason for the Dutch "No" vote might be offered by this : - "This year's Eurovision Song Contest - the 50th - featured songs from 39 countries, including long-time participant the Netherlands. However, the Dutch song failed to win enough votes to go through from the semi-final to the big night on Saturday 21 May. Some Dutch people are citing this as a reason to vote 'No' to the EU constitution, for while such things happen in a competition of any kind, they see this particular failure as a sign that Europe is stacked against them and dominated by former communist nations. " (From http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/currentaffairs/dutchaffairs/ned050527?view=Standar d&version=1) France did very badly in the Song Contest, too. No country has a monopoly on idiots, all countries have too many, they all have the vote. You can read too much into some votes, I'm just saying. __________________________________________________________________ This message might contain confidential information. If it has been sent to you in error please do not forward it or copy it or act upon its contents, but report it to [log in to unmask] Schroders has the right lawfully to record, monitor and inspect messages between its employees and any third party. Your messages shall be subject to such lawful supervision as Schroders deems to be necessary in order to protect its information, its interests and its reputation. Schroders prohibits and takes steps to prevent its information systems from being used to view, store or forward offensive or discriminatory material. If this message contains such material please report it to [log in to unmask] Schroders does not normally accept or offer business instructions via email unless prior agreements are in place. Any action that you might take upon this message might be at your own risk. Schroder Investment Management Limited 31 Gresham Street London EC2V 7QA Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Schroder Investment Management Limited is entered on the FSA register under the following register number: 119348 Registered Office 31 Gresham Street London EC2V 7QA Registered number 1893220 VAT registration number 243 8687 30 * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *