I bet you're an a$$hole at home, too. talking to good again, eh? time for your meds! > -----Original Message----- > From: Denys Beauchemin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:37 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: OT: Non-conservative comments > > > After reading your LONG diatribe explaining how you would have done > NOTHING, I can only thank good, you are where you are. :-) > > Denys > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf Of James B. Byrne > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:48 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Non-conservative comments > > On 29 Oct 2004 at 11:55, John Lee wrote: > > > Put yourself in GWB's shoes and tell us all...what would > > you have done > > Well, I do not believe that I would have invaded Iraq if that is your > question. I do not think that I would have permitted the House of > Saud to evacuate its family members resident in the United States to > flee my jurisdiction. I do not believe that I would have decided to > go out and make any more trouble for my country than I already faced. > > Maybe I would have sat down with some of my senior non-political > staff and listened to what they had to say. Maybe some of the > insights offered by these loyal Americans who have served their > country well for decades might have given me some guidance in the > treacherous waters that I was now forced to navigate. Maybe I would > have reflected deeply on what options really existed and on which > ones were likely to bear fruit and which were likely to turn sour. > Maybe I would have thought about what should be done and what could > be done instead of shooting at my favourite target. > > Maybe I was have looked to other countries and said, we are all in > this together so what do you think should be done about it. Maybe I > would have had a coherent long-term policy worked out by the best and > the brightest my country had to offer, with measurable goals and > realizable processes established. Maybe I would have sold these > ideas to the world. Maybe I would have used a little arm twisting, a > little horse trading to sell them. Maybe I would have had to push a > little aggressively in private to obtain consent. Maybe I would have > had to settle for less than all that I wanted. Maybe I would have > had to compromise. Maybe I would have had to put the interests of > the world ahead of my own. Maybe I would have avoided pushing other > countries to adopt policies that could only publicly humiliate their > governments. Maybe if I had then the amount of arm twisting and > horse trading necessary might not be so great after all and the > amount of discontent and resistance much reduced. Maybe if I could > not get enthusiastic endorsement then at least I might have obtained > reserved consent. > > But whatever I ultimately chose to do, I would not have done it > alone. I would not have proceeded without the consensus of the > people upon whom my country's security and prosperity ultimately > rest. I would not have gone out of my way to sow discord and > distrust where none grew before. I would not have attacked Iraq. > > I think that I would have put my country's best interests ahead of my > personal beliefs. I do not think that I would have lied to my people > to obtain their grudging consent for acts that most had deep > misgivings about. I do not think that I would have focused my hatred > on one individual and ignored all the contra-indicators. I do not > believe that I would have led my country into a bottomless pit of > violence and destruction, and in the end have had no better plan than > to continue the orgy of killing until someone else stops me because I > lack the wit to stop myself. > > I would have gone after the money, the contacts, the enablers, the > feeders of intelligence and the purveyors of hatred. I would have > sought out those that fund and agitate. Whether high or low, whether > prince or pauper, whether christian or muslim, atheist or agnostic, I > would have had them found, outed and brought to justice before a > court, not shot out of hand. > > But, had I attempted this I would be dead. Because you see, the great > crime in all this is that it is mostly an illusion. You do not have > to look far to see which country is exporting radical islamic > fundamentalism, and it is neither Iraq nor Iran. You do not have to > delve deep to discover where the money comes from. You do not have > to be terribly well informed to discover just where the epicentre for > most of this discontent arises. > > What was the nationality of the majority of hijackers on 9/11. Where > was OBL born and raised? Where does he get his money? Why is he > still at large and Saddam in prison? What is the home of the most > holy places of Islam? Whose form of government is so distant from > the secular ideal of western philosophies and representative > democracy that its workings are barely comprehensible to Europeans? > Whose purpose does a United States invasion of Iraq serve? Quo Bono? > Not I. Not You. Not the United States. Not the west. But somebody > benefits, who? > > Why is the obvious overlooked and the trivial attacked? Because that > is the safe way. Not safe for you, not safe for the United States, > not safe for the world. But it is safe for those that profit under > current economic and political arrangements and wish to perpetuate > them. It is safe for those that do not wish to bring unwelcome > attention to themselves by pointing out to the emperor that he wears > no clothes. It is safe for those that demand instant gratification > for their emotional desire for revenge and wish to undertake no great > risk to themselves to obtain it. > > What would I have done? I would have sought a solution and not > created another problem thereby; that is what I would have done. I > do not claim that I would have found one, but I would have tried and > at the very least left no more of a mess than I started with. > > I would not have eschewed violence, but it would not have been my > principal instrument. I would not have demanded unanimity from other > states but nonetheless I would have forged a large majority in > support of whatever action was taken. I might have covertly > subverted the rules of the United Nations in seeking out those > responsible, but I would not have overtly defied that organization > either. In the end, no matter how they are realized in fact, results > must be perceived to have been legitimately obtained to be sustained. > Therefore illusion is a necessary part of statecraft. But duplicity > and deceit are not and in practice cause more harm than good. > > I would have tried to be president, to all Americans and not just > those that agree with me, knowing that this is impossible but > understanding that the attempt must be made. I would have cherished > the ideas of justice and humanity, compassion and forbearance that > the United States constitution seeks to establish, not just for > Americans, but for all the people of the world. I would have told > the American populace that their fear, though understandable, if > heeded is more destructive than any terrorist bomb and must therefore > be resisted. That anger and hate cannot guide a people safely out of > tragedy. That in the long run there is only one world and we must > all find a place for everyone within it. That is what I would have > done. > > But evidently some would much rather just kill. > > -- > > *** e-mail is NOT a secure channel *** > James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB.<token>@Harte-Lyne.ca > Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca > 9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241 > Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757 > Canada L8E 3CE delivery <token> = hal > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html * > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html * > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *