And just the other day, Richard Perle, one of the architects of the current nonsense, said on one of the Sunday morning talk shows that, "Democracies don't start aggressive wars." I just about fell out of my chair. So much for sophistries. Wirt Atmar They don't...... depending on what you mean by 'Start'. * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *