X-no-Archive:yes Cortlandt Wilson wrote > I think the connection between "product leadership" and marketing excellence > is a good one. Whereas I would consider marketing to also be part of the customer relationship, or (customer) service. I do see your point, although I do not for a moment believe that marketing alone can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Of course, one of the tricks is to market the product to the buyer, when the buyer is not the primary consumer. This works for both dog food and corporate America, with one important difference. The dog has more choices than the IT department. So, we have often heard the regret that the individual with budgetary discretion has seen lots of bright and shining advertisements, and not nearly enough of them for hp, let alone the 3000. As I understand what little I understand about the HP Way, honesty and restrain in advertising were esteemed values, long before every VP who could swing a golf club had heard of Java and Linux, and knew that the web was important, without knowing much else about it, or even if his own company was on the web or not. Greg Stigers http://www.cgiusa.com * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *