At 16:49 08/20/1998 -0400, Joe Geiser wrote (clipped and re-wrapped):
>Bob Brown said after me,
>> Thanks, Joe, for saying what I wanted to say, only doing so much
>> better than I  could.  I, too, have been working with MPE since
>> 1979, and computers in general for longer than I care to think
>> about.  I'm definitely certifiable, although not
>> certified ;).  Your last sentence in the above says it all.
>
>Bob,  You were the first to make it public ;)  My Inbox was full of messages
>saying the same thing, so if one asks me, I think the sentiment is such that
>Certification is a waste of money and time.

I almost agree :)  Time-wise, I trained in the sixties.  HP3K since
mid-seventies.  And like others on this list, I'd prefer to be judged on my
performance too (I'm r-e-a-l light on degrees).  But remember, I said:
>Another flavor could be the "completed the course satisfactorily" kind -
>would that be "certificated?"  It would be used to indicate that the person
>has completed a course of study satisfactorily.

You can get a piece of paper from a school that says you achieved a {insert
name here} degree - and that IMHO merely says you passed a test.  It
doesn't indicate your abilities any better than a driver's license
indicates your ability on a track.  I also said:
>. . . You would still want to check references, verify experience, etc -
>but you'd have a much clearer set of expectations.
You -do- check that degrees claimed by an applicant are real, right?

>OTOH - I did have a talk with Paul Edwards today -- I called him to discuss
>this very subject, and he did fill me in on the HP side of things... he had
>some very interesting things to say, and for "resellers" - I can see HP
>wanting people in the field who HP are confident of - who "know their
>stuff".  I know we're all tired of seeing DARs and VARs (whatever they're
>called these days) who send any warm body out to sell a box, whether they're
>qualified or not.  In this case, I can see a need for HP to force the issue,
>and Paul does have a point.

Agreed - but their requirements seem to be more for the "CDP" or "CPA"
qualifications.  What I was suggesting was:
- a rough gauge of past exposure to knowledge or training
- that can be confirmed by an outside source
- with a commonly perceived value
- that takes advantage of existing mechanisms
- fairly quickly and inexpensively.

Being able to easily confirm that an applicant had completed a particular
course at HP, and giving that confirmation some professional respect seems
like a start.  It could elevate the perceived value of HP training to the
same levels as other formal education claimed on an application.

But it's not a "Certificate" program (at least to start).

I'll drop the thread - but if anyone has a better name or plan for what I'm
suggesting, please feel free to take the idea and carry on.  Remember that
my example talked about hiring an operator: it's my impression that a
candidate for an operations position (at least in New England) who can
claim that the HP Operations course was completed satisfactorily has a
definite advantage.  Just my opinion :)

And the mail software seems to be doing well - thanks for the feedback.
Now, back to the shadows.
--
Regards -- Tony B. Shepherd -- [log in to unmask]