At 08:57 PM 6/9/95 GMT, Jim Royce wrote:
>I found out from HP Response Center that DCE/3000 is a
>separate product (not part of FOS) and available for MPE/iX
>5.0.  I don t have a product number or price (we have a
>987/100 so if the price is tier based we re in trouble).  I
>understand that DCE/9000 Executive is included with HP-UX
>10.0.  To quote the HP literature:  All licenses of HP-UX
>version 10 include TCP/IP, ARPA Services, NFS, NCS,
>DCE/9000 Executive, XTI over TCP/IP, and STREAMS/9000 .
[...]
>Let me know if my take on DCE/3000 is correct.  If I do
>jump up on my soapbox, I would advocate having MPE/iX
>include any software that is included in HP-UX that makes
>the HP-UX an  open  system.
>
While I have no doubt what you say is true, a little reading between the
lines may indicate there is no problem. Unfortunately, I can't speak
unequivocally for HP, but I've had some fun playing in this area.
 
First a little background. DCE is the Open Software Foundation's definition
of the technology for Distributed Computing.  Two of the leading proponents
were Sun with their ONC RPC system and HP (originating from Apollo) with
their NCS.  The HP NCS system with backing (and changes) from IBM, DEC and
Microsoft was selected by OSF at least for the primary RPC mechanism over
the more popular (and freely available in source) Sun mechanism.  From that
OSF started assembling the complete specification with its many components.
(An interesting side-note is that Microsoft then felt no compunction to
stick with this standard, and adjusted them moderately to suit their own
purposes - for the most part protocol compatible, but not source code: might
makes right once again.)
 
You will probably have noticed on your HP3000 (at least from MPE 4.0) an
account HPNCS with both a relocatble library and a number of programs.  My
reading is this supports the run time environment for NCS.  That is, it
exists to allow programs written to the NCS spec to be *executed* on the
HP3000 machine.  It includes programs like the Location Broker and the
Global Bocation Broker for identifying your machines server resources to
other clients.  It does not however provide you with the NIDL compiler or
other parts to develop your own routines. (There is a UUIDGEN strangely.)
 
Okay, so that briefly explains some of NCS, but what about DCE?
 
Unfortunately, I don't know.  DCE is not yet released for the 3000, and it
encompasses many other features not covered by NCS, particularly kerebos
security mechanisms and network time protocols (the latter necessary for the
former).  The calls in the RLNCS seem totally incompatible with those named
for DCE, but the RPC mechanism is very similar.  I attempted to order the
NCS developer's kit over two years ago, filling out forms and speaking to
folks at HP's head office here in Melbourne, but all to no avail -- it just
disappeared.
 
Now that I'm on 5.0 I'm eagerly awaiting news of the DCE as well.
 
Your concerns though that HPUX systems are getting something MPE systems are
not may not be necessary.  My inclination is to believe that when DCE comes
out, that run-time support will be included the same as for NCS.  That means
programs prepared with a DCE Developer Kit would execute on standard systems
(and/or include no-charge distributable items).  Your quote of "DCE/9000
Executive" makes me think this may be the same situation on the HP-UX.
These systems would be able to run (execute) DCE programs, but not develop
them.  You make care to check if there is a DCE/9000 Developer's Kit?
 
With all that in mind, remember that RPC is not the be-all and end-all of
distributed computing.  As a synchronous calling procedure, there are many
conditions that it will not be suited for.  Synonymous with RPC is the use
of threads and possibly forks to manage processing from request queues. The
complexity and performance considerations of the use of such techniques may
make it more advisable to select another methodology.
 
Another concern, I've not seen adequately addressed is the impact on us
overseas users.  Kerebos security still uses encryption techniques that the
US COCOM rules illegal to ship outside the US (and Canada?).  A possible
consequence is that HP or other vendors may not ship DCE (initially) outside
the US, or that it will receive a lobotamy before it does.  The irony though
is that these more common security routines are widely available outside the
US already.  I'm hoping (but without any real reason to) that HP will see
the wisdom of making the security routines 'hook-able' so that we can link
our own libraries back in.  Maybe the whole thing should be developed in India?
 
I hope this helps...I'm just a try-er so far, not a do-er. :(
 
Regards.
----
Jim "seMPEr" Wowchuk           Internet:    [log in to unmask]
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