I peradventure to guess an MPE RTU license transfer questions were answered in the two next to last questions in this 2009 document:
http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/e3000/download/e3000upgpolfaqs.pdf
Tracy Johnson
Office (757) 766-4318
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Yeo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:14 PM
To: Johnson, Tracy
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
Having been at the Stromasys demonstration last week, I'm very impressed
where they have got. In fact I would go so far as to say that it's a
done deal, at some point in the non to distant future there will be a
deployable emulator.
As Craig has described the model is very clean one processor runs MPE
(not an MPE clone or emulator) real MPE, whilst another processor
emulates the PA RISC hardware aka HP3000. So the fact that they have MPE
booted means that virtually any software or compilers that run under MPE
will also run under MPE on the emulated platform (they just won't know
they are). Its in the underlying PA RISC emulation that work is still
required to emulate SCSI, network interfaces and other peripheral
hardware, but that as they say is a simple matter of coding.
As I understand it (and hopefully Craig will correct me if I'm wrong)
the emulator licence agreement with HP specifies PA RISK 2.0? chip set.
So we are talking A & N Class hardware emulation and supported
peripherals. A & N clases only support MPE/iX 7.5 and whilst the
emulator theoretically could be modified to support 7.0 one would have
to ask if there was any benefit in the work to do so. 7.5 would be a far
more desirable place to be than 7.0.
I could be mistaken but I don't think 2.0 PA RISC hardware and therefore
an emulation can run anything less than MPE 7.0.
However as far as moving from an HP3000 running earlier versions of MPE
than 7.0 to an emulated platform I don't think there is a licensing
problem. If you have a licensed copy of MPE you have a licence for MPE
not a specific version of MPE. Therefore HP should allow you to transfer
your MPE Licence. The fact that on the Emulator you require version 7.5
should be irrelevant to that process.
So as long as your programs will run under MPE 7.5 they should run on
the emulator unaltered. If they don't run under 7.5 for any reason then
you may need new versions from your software vendors, or possibly to
recompile. Recompiling may be an issue as I think there were updated
versions of some compilers for PA RISC 2.0 and as yet I haven't seen any
details on what HP's position is on the licensing/use of later subsystem
software. But I'm sure that is just a technicality :-)
Software Licensing (other than MPE) on an emulated platform is going to
be the proverbial can of worms. I suspect that some vendors will take a
realistic approach that the majority of customers are going to get very
little advantage running on an emulated HP3000 over that running on a
real HP3000 and will happily continue to support and earn revenue from
it running on an emulated HP3000. Others may be less reasonable.
There will no doubt be some lively discussions over the coming year as
to what an HP3000 is. But if a piece of hardware boots MPE and reports
an identical HPSUSAN and HPCPUNAME it would be hard to say that it
wasn't an HP3000. As they say, If it Looks like a Fish and Smells like a
Fish, its probably a fish.
As far as Tier Licensed software goes, the argument that an emulated
HP3000 goes much quicker than the HP3000 it is emulating I think is a
bit lame. If a 3rd Party vendor had released a utility that made a Tier
1 A class run 2-3 times quicker, or HP as a final gesture of good will
had uncrippled them, or in fact had continued with HP3000 development
and introduced faster Tier 1 processors. Whilst there may have been a
few companies disappointed that they couldn't extract more revenue, the
bottom line is that it would have still been Tier 1 hardware. Others may
disagree but I maintain that a given piece of software has no more
intrinsic value when running on faster hardware.
User Licensed Software that used MPE User Count restrictions is a
different matter, as moving to 7.5 means unlimited user counts. I expect
there will be some interesting discussions on this topic.
Whilst with my migration vendor hat on, the emulator or
"CHARON-HPA/3000" (to give it its new correct name) is likely to be
disruptive technology whilst companies reassess their medium/longterm
strategies. As we also use and support customers who had no plans to
migrate from the HP3000 it is good to see this solution becoming
available.
Its impressive what Stromasys have done.
Alan - looking forward to playing with an HPa3000 in the non too distant
future
In message
<[log in to unmask]>,
"Johnson, Tracy" <[log in to unmask]> writes
>That IS the main reason I convinced my boss to pay the $1K for a lost
>license last year for a 929 were NOT using, powered down and sitting in
>a corner. From the last HP notice I read, only 9x9s (and better!)
>qualify for future emulator transfers.
>
>Tracy Johnson
>Office (757) 766-4318
>[log in to unmask]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Jennifer Fisher
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 6:23 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>
>I believe this to be correct. As with most software, technically it
>should run, you just need to ensure you are not in breach of any
>software license agreements. As a reseller of most of the technology
>that runs on the HPe3k I'm sure most companies would just require a
>license transfer fee to continue using the software on the new hardware.
>
>Jennifer.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Denys Beauchemin
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 6:16 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>
>Technically, there is no reason why Speedware, Powerhouse or any other
>application would not work on the emulator. This is not an emulation of the
>OS, but rather an emulation of the PA-RISC architecture.
>
>What about the good old HPSUSAN? Read the line above.
>
>We also understand about having it done 7 or 8 years ago. In fact it is a
>very long story, but that's neither here nor there. It is imminent now and
>I would think this is good news for the homesteaders with hardware that is
>on its last legs. It will also be very useful for those who have migrated
>but still need to have access to old data; this technology provides for a
>simple method to access the archived data.
>
>Please remember that the OS is frozen in time, it is 7.5 circa 2004 (?) and
>it is not being developed further but everything that it can do on an
>HP3000, it can do on the emulator. A migration away from the HP3000 is
>still the best long term path, but the emulator presents a viable long-term
>method to remain on MPE without worrying about aging disk drives and tape
>drives.
>
>Denys
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>Of Gary Stephens
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:08 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>
>Hi Craig
>
>couple of questions from the hip, has anyone tried, powerhouse, speedware,
>etc?
>What about the good old HPSUSAN
>I have a number of clients where I have archived their apps of onto one of
>my boxes and now provide access as and when, but still do a small amount of
>development work.
>Interesting times, and not looking to put a downer on any of this as its
>truly great news, but its a shame this could not have been done 7 or 8 years
>ago, instead of providing homesteading, I could have been developing more.
>Cheers
>Gary
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion on behalf of Craig Lalley
>Sent: Wed 28/09/2011 12:05 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>
>Art,
>
>The great job belongs to Stromasys. They have 10years plus experience in
>writing hardware emulators, VAX, PDP, etc...
>
>What Stromasys did not know, is how the MPE system works and how to
>configure it.
>
>That is where we helped.
>
>But it is amazing. I have worked on every Model of HP3000 from the Series
>3, to an N-class 750-8 way. Now, I can boot MPE on my laptop. I find
>that amazing.
>
>-Craig
>
>--- On Tue, 9/27/11, Bahrs, Art <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>From: Bahrs, Art <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: RE: MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>To: "'Craig Lalley'" <[log in to unmask]>, "[log in to unmask]"
><[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2011, 4:00 PM
>
>Hi Craig :)
> WOW!!! Great job to you and Denys and Paul!!!
>
>Art "Really Impressed" Bahrs
>
>Art Bahrs, CISSP
>Security Engineer (Oregon Region)
>(503) 216-2722
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>Of Craig Lalley
>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 3:56 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: MPE on Intel hardware, thank you Stromasys
>
>First off, the HP3000 reunion was a wonderful time. It was appropriately
>held at the computer history museum.
>
>I am not sure if I should put a plug alert here. This is probably the most
>on-topic discussion in months.
>
>On
> Friday for the Camus group and Saturday morning for the HP3000 group, I
> had the honor of demo'ing a working MPE 7.5 system on Intel hardware.
>The rumors are true, my laptop boots MPE.
>
>Stromasys has created a
> working PA-RISC emulator. The emulator recreates PA-RISC architecture in
>software. What this means is that I take a raw disk
>image (bit by bit copy) of a working HP3000 system. I then transfer that
>file to my laptop. If the disk is 9gb it will be a 9gb image. If it is an
>18gb disk, the end result is an 18gb file. Currently the system needs to be
>running MPE 7.5 or in theory MPE 7.0.
>
>The emulator starts at an ISL> prompt. It takes approximately 2 minutes
>and 30 seconds for MPE to boot to a colon prompt.
>
>From that point on the system is solid. I can compile, run FSCHECK, stream
>jobs, and block mode works.
>
>Stromasys has announced they will begin shipping the first version of this
>product in January.
>
>My goal is to find limited field test sites for smaller systems. The first
>version will only support a single CPU.
>
>I know there are going to be questions, so feel free to send them and I will
>do my best.
>
>I have been working with Denys Beauchemin and Paul Edwards on this. I am
>sure Denys and Paul will be happy to pitch in as well.
>
>Regards,
>
>-Craig Lalley
>
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--
Alan Yeo
[log in to unmask] Just because you're paranoid
Phone +44 1684 291710 it doesn't mean someone isn't!.
Fax +44 1684 291712
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