Thanks Donna - you and some other folks pointed out the issue for me,
in simple enough terms even for a hardhead like me to understand.
(Thanks also Stan, Jim, Gordon, Matthew, Craig, Lars, and a few
others...) I have saved all your helpful answers in my HP3K notebook!

The answer of course, was that someone had gotten clever (I am
innocent of that! :)  and made the file a "UDC", which I now
understand is somewhat more than a Unix script file.

Using the Unix utils (i.e rm! ) got rid of the nusiance file, and the
instructions from several others of you on how to zap it out of the
catalog worked the trick. I IPLed the system and it came up without
any hassle, and I can now edit that little file to me hearts content.

Again, I really appreciate the help Donna (and the rest of you!). I
sure am glad you don't mind these rather basic level questions.
I'll surely return the favors anytime I can. :)

Yours,
-Paul


On Oct 6, 2008, at 4:53 PM, donna hofmeister wrote:

> sysstart should ONLY be access when the system is booting.  it
> should not be
> busy/in-use during normal day-to-day activities.
>
> first things first....
>
> check the file with listfile,-3:
>
> : listfile sysstart,-3
> ********************
> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
>
> FILE CODE : 0                   FOPTIONS: ASCII,FIXED,NOCCTL,STD
> BLK FACTOR: 12                  CREATOR : MANAGER.SYS
> REC SIZE: 72(BYTES)             LOCKWORD:
> BLK SIZE: 864(BYTES)            SECURITY--READ    : CR
> EXT SIZE: 8(SECT)                         WRITE   : CR
> NUM REC: 12                               APPEND  : CR
> NUM SEC: 16                               LOCK    : CR
> NUM EXT: 1                                EXECUTE : CR
> MAX REC: 12                             **SECURITY IS ON
> MAX EXT: 1                      FLAGS   : NO ACCESSORS
> NUM LABELS: 0                   CREATED : WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
> MAX LABELS: 0                   MODIFIED: WED, NOV 21, 2007, 10:52 PM
> DISC DEV #: 1                   ACCESSED: MON, OCT  6, 2008,  2:30 PM
> SEC OFFSET: 0                   LABEL ADDR: $00000013.$0068E220
> VOLCLASS  : MPEXL_SYSTEM_VOLUME_SET:DISC
>
> creator   is manager.sys
> ownership is cr
> security  is on
> disc dev  is 1
>
> given what you're describing...i suspect that this file has been
> some how
> cataloged.
>
> type: showcatalog;user=manager.sys
>
> and send us the results.      - d
>
> ---
> Donna Hofmeister
> Allegro Consultants, Inc.
> 408-252-2330
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Paul Raulerson
>> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 2:27 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS file?
>>
>> <grin> Yes sysstartup_vms.com  is the startup file under OpenVMS.  I
>> definitely meant SYSSTART.PUB.SYS.
>>
>> Problem is on this system, the file is locked and it is near
>> impossible
>> to get it *unlocked* - at least my any method I have
>> been able to devise. Did get it unlocked one time, but I sure don't
>> know how I did it. Tried all the stuff I can think of, like booting
>> the
>> machine into Single User mode, setting the automatic login to
>> MANAGER.SYS, NOSYSSTART, etc.
>>
>> The little bugger insists on refusing to allow the file to be
>> edited. A
>> listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9, even with the system in Single user
>> mode,
>> gives me this:
>>
>> :listfile sysstart.pub.sys 9
>> ********************
>> FILE: SYSSTART.PUB.SYS
>> 6 Accessors(O:6,P:6,L:0,W:0,R:6),Share
>> #S7     MANAGER.SYS                P:2,L:0,W:0,R:2      REM :
>> 216.110.21.130
>> #P22    (CI.PUB.SYS)
>>   ACCESS: R-excl            REC#: 0                    FNUM: 9
>>    LOCKS: none
>> #P48    (JSMAIN.PUB.SYS)
>>   ACCESS: R-excl            REC#: 14                   FNUM: 13
>>    LOCKS: none
>> ...
>> ...
>> ...  [ more users here because I took this in multi-user mode ]
>> ...
>> ...
>> With multiple users logged in, there is one set of these for each
>> user,
>> and one for the JINETD streamed job that supplies TCP/IP services
>> like
>> a telnet server.
>>
>> I *think* the problem may have something with the "R-excl"  - some
>> kind
>> of exclusive lock on the file. Not at all sure.
>>
>> I did not initially understand that there was something - eh -  "odd"
>> about the way this little system was behaving. It looks like
>> a real puzzle to me, but is probably some really simple answer.
>> :)
>>
>> -Paul
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 06, 2008, at 12:39PM, "Stan Sieler"
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>> Subject:        	[HP3000-L] How to edit the SYSSTARTUP.PUB.SYS
>> file?
>>>>
>>>> There is no such file: non-HFS filenames are limited to 8
>>>> characters
>> per
>>>> part, and "SYSSTARTUP" is a bit more than 8 :)
>>>>
>>>> If you're referring to SYSTART.PUB.SYS, then:
>>>>
>>>> 1) logon as MANAGER.SYS (important...the OS checks the creator of
>> that file
>>>>  as a security check)
>>>>
>>>> 2) :editor        (or whatever editor you prefer....but EDITOR is
>> MPE's vi...
>>>>                   free and on every system)
>>>>
>>>>  edit to your heart's content
>>>>
>>>> 3) k
>>>>
>>>>  or
>>>>
>>>>   k sysstart, unn         (if making a new file)
>>>>
>>>> The "unn" means: keep the file unnumbered (you don't want sequence
>> numbers
>>>> in columns 73..80!).
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>
>>>> Stan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stan Sieler
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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