One of my daughter's journalism professors at a respected state university 
(and liberal-leaning)  recently told the class to question as accurate what 
they read in newspapers due to, among other reasons, what Denys sites.

John Lee




At 10:27 PM 10/6/05 -0500, Denys Beauchemin wrote:
>Compelling in what sense?  The argument shows a total disregard of reality.
>It is written by someone who gets the news from the MSM and actually
>believes it.
>
>The MSM did a horrible job of reporting all manners of fake stories,
>unfounded rumors and hyperbole regarding Katrina and its aftermath.  And
>this is right here in the US of A.  How could you even think of believing
>anything being reported by the MSM about Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else
>for that matter?
>
>The MSM and that includes CNN, MSNBC, Fox, NYT, LA Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC
>and all others only care about ratings or their own little agendas.
>
>In an age of instant global communications we are being disinformed and
>propagandized to as never before.
>
>Denys
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>Of Al Karman
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 4:57 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Three Brazilian soldiers
>
>Howard,
>
>Mighty compelling argument...prepare for it to become eviscerated by the
>crowd prone to wrapping themselves in either the Bible or the American Flag.
>
>
>Al Karman
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>Of Hoxsie, Howard
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 4:43 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Three Brazilian soldiers
>
>I have a hard time believing that the "neocons" did NOT realize that
>conducting a war externally will not prevent terrorist acts internally.
>I think Wirt's comments reflect exactly that sense of realism.
>
>In order to end this conflict we will most likely need another Richard
>Nixon "peace with honor" retreat.  As in 1968 when a powerful Texan in
>the White House couldn't "win it", the nation looked to the other party
>and it took that guy 7 years to get us out of Viet Nam.
>
>The rationale in the 1950's for going in was to stop communism before it
>came to our borders.  The only thing that stopped the spread of
>communism was its own non-viability, not that giant pile of dead
>American teen-agers.
>
>Do we need another heap like that?  Is it any wonder the neocons won't
>let us see the pile they're making?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Wirt Atmar
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:51 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Three Brazilian soldiers
>
>John writes:
>
> > I'm not trying to be political and assign blame.  I do believe that if
>we
> >  do not engage terrorism right now on foreign soil, then we're going
>to be
> >  forced to deal with it in our local municipalities.  We'll have buses
>
> >  blowing up in our neighborhoods for the next 100 years.  The current
> >  administration had no choice but to engage the enemy.
>
>If you believe that, John, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
>
>The invasion of Iraq was a wet dream dreamt up by a group of
>out-of-power
>"neoconservatives" during the latter part of the Clinton years. It had
>nothing to
>do with 9/11, other than 9/11 was used as a pretext for the invasion.
>
>Surprisingly, this group of neoconservatives was headed by a journalist,
>
>William Kristol, but the cabal contained people whose names you're now
>familiar
>with: Richard Perle, Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul
>Wolfowitz,
>etc.
>
>The underlying reason for their planned invasion of Iraq was
>encapsulated in
>their mantra: "The road to peace in Jerusalem runs through Baghdad."
>American
>foreign policy is greatly distorted by two groups, Jewish-Americans and
>Cuban-Americans, and as a result, our current relations with Israel and
>Cuba are
>neither rational nor are in our best interests.
>
>A substantial fraction of Kristol's neoconservative group is
>Jewish-American,
>and the protection and promotion of agressive Israeli tactics was their
>primary interest, not that of America's. Indeed, they became so
>emboldened with
>their plans that after the election of the current president, who I
>believe was
>basically clueless as to their ideas during the campaign of 2000, that
>the new,
>joking mantra became: "Everyone wants to go to Baghdad. Real men want to
>go
>to Tehran." Indeed they were so heady with their successes following the
>
>indecisive victory by Bush in 2000 that they had laid out plans for the
>subsequent
>invasions of Syria and Iran. Unfortunately, the wheels came off of their
>plans
>in Iraq. It was neither a cakewalk, nor were we greeted as liberators.
>
>The reason that the long succession of rationales for the invasion of
>Iraq
>haven't made any sense is that none of them are true, including today's
>speech.
>They're simply cover stories for the original plans, one
>misrepresentation
>after another, formulated specifically to be something that could be
>sold the
>American public.
>
>I haven't looked at their website in some time, but all of this is/was
>well-documented on Kristol's website, The Project for a New American
>Century, where
>the basic thesis that was argued was that the world will be a safer
>place
>because the United States will be feared.
>
>In a more just and equitable world, the current administration and those
>
>associated with the PNAC would be tried as war criminals for their
>promotion of an
>illegal and unwarranted invasion and the subsequent deaths of at least a
>
>hundred thousand people. The problem is that now we're stuck in Iraq and
>no
>serious student of the problem has any clue on how to extract ourselves
>from the
>mess that the current adminstration has created.
>
>Wirt Atmar
>
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