For the sake of argument, I'll disagree with yours, too, at least
somewhat...

> I must disagree with your definitions.  Back in the days before PCs,
> there was a class of terminals called "Smart" terminals.  These machines

included HP2645, et cetera, which would, annoyingly to the dumb terminal fan

club, react to things in the incoming datastream.

> could implement some local logic, such as validation of input and
> reformatting of data.  Terminals which simply display and accept data
> without any such manipulation are called dumb terminals.

you could look that up, so I did, and everybody's right!

dumb terminal     n.     A terminal that is one step above a glass tty,
having a minimally addressable cursor but no on-screen editing or other
features normally supported by a smart terminal. Once upon a time, when
glass ttys were common and addressable cursors were something special, what
is now called a dumb terminal could pass for a smart terminal.

> I believe the
> term was coined by Lear Siegler for their ADM series of terminals.  =
> These terminals can do cursor addressing, etc.  The fact that HP =
> terminals use proprietary commands for those functions
> doesn't make them =
> less dumb, and some of the added features, such as block mode and =
> display enhancements are still not enough to classify them as Smart =
> terminals.  Some HP terminals, such as the 2647A, were
> programmable, and =
> are therefore considered smart terminals.  The terminals that
> most HP =
> terminal emulators emulate, such as the 700/94 are indeed dumb =
> terminals.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tracy Pierce [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: March 09, 2004 9:08 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Display Function Behavior on 3 Emulators
>
>
> > Just because I didn't spit out the exact model number you have to =
> nitpick!
> > I did say it was an "HP" dumb terminal...
>
> Yes you did, and I'm touched that you see my correction as a
> nitpick, =
> then
> make the same mistake again.
>
> A "dumb terminal" (which lookup via google) is simply that.
> No magic, =
> or
> very little.  HPTerm on the other hand uses a very
> proprietary and quite
> extensive system of controls for doing all sorts of magic, including
> unprotected fields, display enhancement, etc etc.  But I
> guess you could
> call it dumb because it doesn't show nulls in display
> functions mode, =
> dumb!
>
> They're quite opposite, and you seem quite touchy!
>
> The exact model number _I_ spit out happens to be one that does do =
> monitor
> mode, what you need to see nulls on the screen.  You can also
> see them =
> with
> the old 256x printers; I think you use the very same escape
> sequence to =
> turn
> it on, too.  TerminalControlLanguage, that entity which includes =
> sequences
> to turn on blinking etc, developed (or should we say
> evolved?) alongside
> PrinterControlLanguage, is the reason you see that HP logo on
> all those
> laser printers.  Canon had a cool laser engine, and needed a
> way to talk =
> to
> it.  HP got so rich they forgot about their flagship computer.
>
> You ask a real question here, you get a real answer, sometimes.
>
> Tracy Pierce
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Johnson, Tracy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:21 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Display Function Behavior on 3 Emulators
> >
> >
> > Just because I didn't spit out the exact model number
> > you have to nitpick!  I did say it was an "HP" dumb
> > terminal...
> >
> > BT
> >
> >
> > Tracy Johnson
> > MSI Schaevitz Sensors=3D20
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> > > Behalf Of Tracy Pierce
> > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:16 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Display Function Behavior on 3 Emulators
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > > "HP terminal" and "dumb terminal" are two different things,=3D20
> > > dumb terminal
> > > meaning "doesn't do squat except CR & LF", HP Terminal=3D20
> > > meaning "knows HP
> > > terminal control language", a collection of HP-exclusive=3D20
> > > (mostly) responses
> > > to escape sequences.
> > >=3D20
> > > But if your terminal is an HP 2645A, there's a button=3D20
> > > labelled "display
> > > functions", and there's a red pilot lamp indicating that it's=3D20
> > > on.  If you do
> > > control-display-functions (or something similar, sbeen a=3D20
> > > while), you get
> > > MonitorMode, which displays the nulls, and blinks the pilot lamp.
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > >=3D20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Johnson, Tracy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:57 AM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: Display Function Behavior on 3 Emulators
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh and BTW, I went to a HP dumb terminal and got:
> > > >
> > > > LSSSC
> > > > FXHXR
> > > >
> > > > Same as Reflection but without the s/e
> > > >
> > > > BT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tracy Johnson
> > > > MSI Schaevitz Sensors=3D3D20
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> > > > > Behalf Of Johnson, Tracy
> > > > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:38 AM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: [HP3000-L] Display Function Behavior on 3 Emulators
> > > > > Importance: Low
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > When using Display Functions on 3 HP terminal emulators
> > I get=3D3D20
> > > > > three differing results when displaying the same file. =3D3D20
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > The file is IFILE.FDATABAS a MANMAN file record #1.  I'm using
> > > > > two lines to represent non displayable characters to get my
> > > > > point across.  Blanks are shown as blanks.
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > Which is the proper representation? =3D3D20
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > (I suppose I could have it display in Hex or Octal but =
> that=3D3D20
> > > > > would be too easy.)
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > Reflection 1 ver 5.20:
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > LSSSSC
> > > > > FXEHXR
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > Minisoft 92 ver 5.4:
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > L S S    S C
> > > > > F X H    X R
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > QCTerm 2.1:
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > LNS"SNNNNSNC
> > > > > FUX HUUUUXUR
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > BT
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > > > Tracy Johnson
> > > > > MSI Schaevitz Sensors=3D3D20
> > > > >=3D3D20
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> > > > >=3D3D20
> > > >
> >
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> > > >
> > >=3D20
>
> > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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> > >=3D20
> >
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> >
>
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