Interesting comments Tom, and I agree to a point.

<where's my soap box?>
I remember when in high school we would stand every morning and say the
pledge.  My choir teacher would say, after we stood up,  "now all you
Mormons turn and face Salt Lake City!"  No one seemed insulted by the
comment, especially the LDS students, I was one of them.  We chuckled
and went on with life.  I have learned that if one takes life too
serious then trouble seems to find them quicker.  I have learned to
laugh at myself when I put my foot in my mouth.  When one makes a
mistake admit it and move on.  If one is offended by the actions or
comments made by an individual then it's time to have a meeting and put
our differences on the table for discussion.  When this is done rumors
are dispelled and a mutual respect can then be developed.  This doesn't
mean we have to agree with each other, just respect the views/values
each possesses.  

I think the problem is apathy.  When the loud mouth minority gets all
the news and the quiet, apathetic majority decides it's not their
problem, then the minority rules.  I know from personal experience that
the 'squeaky wheel gets all the grease'.  Whenever I attended school
board meetings and raised concerns about issues that I was involved
with, I not only got the attention of the school board, but the
teachers, and the local media.

<soap box has been put away>


-----Original Message-----
From: Gerken, Tom [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [HP3000-L] Christianity in the U.S.A.




I think the Christians in this country should stop fighting for the Ten
Commandments in public buildings or for prayer at public events.  Why?
Several reasons.



 I don't think it really is defensible.  Yes, it used to happen all the
time
and nobody ever objected.  That was when we lived in a country that was
largely Christian.  I don't believe that is really the case any longer.
If
the country was majority Muslim, and city officials wanted to start
meetings
with a prayer facing toward Mecca, the Christians in the audience would
be
really upset.  Someday, if America is majority Muslim, they may try
that.
If we were to object, they could say "you did it when you were the
majority
and fought for it when we objected".  What defense would we have then?
I
hear people say that we don't have to stop doing things because a small
minority objects, but is that truly a Christian attitude?  In this case,
shouldn't we take more of a "turn the other cheek attitude"?



 Second, is it really that important, anyway?  Why do we fight for
having
Christian prayers at the start of city council meetings or other events?
If
we want your leaders to make godly decisions, we should pray for them
before
the meeting.  If we want football players protected during a game, we
should
individually pray for them before it starts.  What good is a group
prayer if
half the people "praying" aren't believers?  "The effectual fervent
prayer
of a righteous man availeth much."  James 5:16b.  One of my friends
believes
God wants him to spend the entire church service off in a room praying
for
the congregation.  Just him by himself.



Third and last, is all of that public Christianity really best in the
first
place.  I know the first impulse is to say "Of course it is!"  but I
wonder.
It is so easy and even desirable for people to say they are Christian
because it is so prevalent in our society.  What really makes me angry
isn't
the Ten Commandments being removed from courthouses.  What makes me
angry is
people like Britney Spears and Bill Clinton calling themselves Baptists
when
they so obviously care nothing about the things of God.  I think this
hurts
Christianity so much more than not allowing community prayer before a
high
school football game.  I remember when Bill was first running for
president.
A reporter asked him about religious beliefs and Bill said he was
Baptist.
The next day a Baptist minister, IIRC, it was the pastor of Bill's
church,
went to the press and basically said, "Wait a minute.  I want to make
sure
everyone understands that the Baptist church does not approve of
abortion,
etc, even if Bill says he supports it."    Bill wasn't embarrassed, but
I
sure would have been.



I think there is soon coming a day when it will hurt to be a Christian
in
America.  You can see the seeds of future persecution being sown today.
People have posted on this listserver examples of schools that allow
after-school clubs for other religion-oriented groups but forbid the
same
privileges for Christian groups.  I believe this kind of discrimination
will
only get worse, especially for denominations that refuse to accept
homosexuality as allowable.  We will be labeled hate-mongers soon
enough.

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