The Kinsey study was a fraud.
They went into prisons and asked men if they ever had sex with another man.
Of course there were more "yes" answers in prisons than there would have
been in the general population.

jm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wirt Atmar" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Choice or Biology


> One person, apparently a devout church-going Protestant, wrote and asked
me
> (in part) privately the following. I'm going to respond publicly:
>
> > do you have some sources for this information that this condition is
> > biological?
>
> > Basically it comes down to the only people who are being persecuted
here,
> > are the "right-minded" Christians, who want to put a stop to this
> > tolerance of the gay life style.
> >
> > Being the parent of a gay son, I don't like hearing that it is either my
> > bad parenting, or out right abuse that caused my son to make
> > this "choice".
>
> Clearly this subject remains controversial, especially in regards to human
> biology, but personally I believe that the data is overwhelming that for a
> certain percentage of the human population, "gayness" is deeply inborn
condition,
> no more changeable for the people who are gay than the color of their
eyes.
>
> Alfred Kinsey, the biologist who first investigated human sexuality in the
> 1940's, estimated the percentage of homosexuals at 3% of the human
population.
> The gay community argues that it's more like 10%, but they have a
political
> agenda to serve in raising the number that high, thus I tend to discount
their
> estimates. Nevertheless, if Kinsey is right at only 3%, when multiplied by
the
> number of people in the United States alone, that still represents a truly
> sizable population of human beings.
>
> Having a gay son puts you in good company -- and it has nothing to do with
> political leanings or religious affliations or your parenting failures.
Both
> Dick Cheney and Dick Gephardt have openly lesbian daughters. But most
people are
> not able to discern who is and who is not gay if they weren't told. The
> American military is one of the last bastions of anti-gay discrimination,
but they
> are also very good at determining who and who will not achieve the rank of
> general or admiral, but even they can't recognize straights from gays.
I've
> included an article from yesterday's NY Times below concerning several
ex-American
> generals and admirals who only announced their gayness after they left the
> service. Similarly, in that regard, Harry Sterling was by far and away the
best
> General Manager that CSY ever had in my opinion, but he too is gay.
>
> To be defined as a mammalian male, you must only have inherited the Y
> chromosome, but there is very little information resident on the Y. It is
a
> degenerate chromosome, and of the information that remains there, the most
important
> gene is called SRY ("sex-determining region on the Y"). The signals that
emanate
> from the SRY gene's translated protein engage the remainder of the
autosomal
> set of chromosomes, turning on and off specific regions in order to create
the
> characteristic physiologies and behaviors of a male animal in the
developing
> embryo.
>
> Maleness is a quality built on a female platform in mammals. Mammals are
> female by default. In that regard, the Book of Genesis has it exactly
backwards.
> But the persistent question in biology has been why do males exist at all?
They
> represent an enormous cost to all mammalian species; parthenogenetic
> reproduction seems a far more preferable and efficient means of
reproduction.
>
> This is a question that has interested me for some time now. I have argued
> that the principal purpose that the presence of males imbue into an
evolving
> phyletic lineage is informational: pugnacious, combative males act as an
> outboard, sacrificial sexual caste to the primary line of descent, where
the primary
> purpose of their prolonged combats is that of a genetic defect filter
prior
> their admission into the breeding deme. See, e.g.:
>
>      http://aics-research.com/research/males1.html
>
> While the presence or not of the Y chromosome is an absolute, gender is
not.
> The extent of maleness or femaleness is determined primarily during
> embryogenesis, during the time that the embryo is bathed in androgens and
estrogens.
> Birth order in a litter will make a great deal of difference in the
exhibited
> behaviors of an individual. If a male is surrounded by sisters, he will be
less
> of an exaggerated male than if he had been surrounded by brothers.
>
> We now know how to manipulate the gender of an embryo. If you wish
references
> on this subject, as good an introductory page as any is:
>
>      http://www.psy.plym.ac.uk/year1/SEXDIFF.HTM
>
> Much of our sexuality resides in the brain, not our genitalia, and quite
> frequently people are born into the wrong body. The sexual brain is
mismatched
> with the body that it finds itself in. One of the most well-known
transgendered
> individuals nowadays is Joan Roughgarden.
>
> I finished my doctoral work in 1976 and began teaching graduate classes in
> both evolutionary biology and electrical engineering almost immediately. I
chose
> Roughgarden's book on population genetics as the basis for one of the
classes
> I taught, although he was Jonathan Roughgarden at the time.
>
> One of students that took the graduate class from me was Steve Judd, who
is
> just a few years younger than I am. Nonetheless, that difference in age
was
> sufficient for me to have served on his doctoral committee. In the early
1980's,
> after Steve finished, he and I went to the Evolution meetings that were
held
> in Tucson that year. By chance, during dinner we were seated with Jonathan
> Roughgarden -- and because we were both relatively newly minted
scientists -- we
> were significantly intimidated. As a result, we were both chastised by
> Roughgarden for not contributing enough to the conversation.
>
> Roughgarden is taller than both of us, perhaps 6'3", and he seemed every
bit
> as aggressive a male as anyone else we know, thus we were flabbergasted
when
> he announced that he had undergone a sex reversal operation a few years
ago.
> Neither one of us would have ever suspected the mismatch in his appearance
with
> his true sexuality.
>
> Roughgarden and I work on similar aspects of biology; we're both obsessed
> with sex -- and what the phenomenon means to a species. To say that she
has an
> agenda in her current research is perhaps not unfair, but most scientists
work
> on what deeply interests them and I do implicitly trust Roughgarden's
> intellectual honesty and rigor. However, that doesn't mean that I agree
with her
> conclusions. In fact my level of disagreement is quite substantial on many
points of
> argument. Nonetheless, she is someone who is worth reading. A first good
> introduction to Roughgarden's current work appears in this short report
about her
> new book:
>
>
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/report/news/2003/february19/aaassocialselect
> ion219.html
>
> Wirt Atmar
>
> ========================================
>
> December 10, 2003
> Gay Ex-Officers Say 'Don't Ask' Doesn't Work
> By JOHN FILES
>
> ASHINGTON, Dec. 9 -- Three retired military officers, two generals and an
> admiral who have been among the most senior uniformed officers to
criticize the
> "don't ask, don't tell" policy for homosexuals in the military, disclosed
on
> Tuesday that they are gay.
>
> The three, Brig. Gen. Keith H. Kerr and Brig. Gen. Virgil A. Richard, both
of
> the Army, and Rear Adm. Alan M. Steinman of the Coast Guard, said the
policy
> had been ineffective and undermined the military's core values: truth,
honor,
> dignity, respect and integrity.
>
> They said they had been forced to lie to their friends, family and
colleagues
> to serve their country. In doing so, they said, they had to evade and
deceive
> others about a natural part of their identity.
>
> The officers said that they were the first generals and admiral to come
out
> publicly and that they hoped that others would follow.
>
> They are the highest-ranking military officers to acknowledge that they
are
> gay. Col. Margarethe Cammermeyer was discharged from the Washington State
> National Guard in 1992 for being a lesbian. She was later reinstated.
>
> Ten years after the Clinton administration instituted the policy of "don't
> ask, don't tell," it remains contentious and has fallen far short of
President
> Bill Clinton's vow to allow gays to serve openly. The officers hope to
spur a
> dialogue, in Washington and in the military, about changing the policy.
>
> Nearly 10,000 service members have been discharged for being gay under the
> policy, which was signed into law by Mr. Clinton on Nov. 30, 1993,
according to
> the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a gay rights group that monitors
> military justice. The group made the officers available to The New York
Times as
> part of a campaign to mark the anniversary of the policy's official
inception.
>
> "Don't ask, don't tell" was a compromise to permit gay men and lesbians to
> serve without fear of harassment or expulsion as long as they kept their
sexual
> orientation to themselves. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said
the
> Bush administration will not revisit the policy.
>
> Senior military leaders have argued that openly gay service members would
> disrupt unit cohesion and morale. "We remain committed to treating all
service
> members with dignity and respect, while fairly enforcing those provisions
of the
> law that mandate the separation of those who choose to violate the
policy,"
> the Pentagon said on Tuesday.
>
> When the policy was created, military officials argued that most
Americans --
> and, thus, most soldiers -- did not approve of or tolerate homosexuality.
And
> while gay service members are believed to make up only a small fraction of
a
> military of more than one million men and women, commanders have said they
are
> concerned that forcing heterosexual members to live, and fight, side by
side
> with gays will undermine the military's mission to win the nation's wars.
>
> "Because gays and lesbians are required to serve in silence and in
celibacy,"
> Admiral Steinman said, "the policy is almost impossible to follow. It has
> been effectively a ban." The Coast Guard is not under the authority of the
> Pentagon, but follows the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
>
> The officers were reluctant to discuss their personal relationships, in
part,
> they said, for fear of the consequences to themselves and loved ones. "I
was
> denied the opportunity to share my life with a loved one, to have a
family, to
> do all the things that heterosexual Americans take for granted," Admiral
> Steinman said. "That's the sacrifice I made to serve my country."
>
> He added, "I didn't even tell my family I was gay until after I retired
from
> the military."
>
> General Richard, who retired from the Army in 1991 after 32 years of
service,
> including assignments in Vietnam and at the Pentagon, said, "No one knew I
> was gay when I was in the military."
>
> "I suppressed my desires, and didn't allow myself to be who I am because
> there was too much at stake," he said.
>
> Admiral Steinman, who was the surgeon general of the Coast Guard before he
> retired in 1997, recalled that earlier in his career, when he was a flight
> surgeon, a young air crewman came to see him with a health problem.
>
> "I had to stop him, when it became clear that he was going to tell me he
was
> gay," Admiral Steinman said. "I would have been required to report him to
> command for discharge."
>
> General Kerr, who retired from the California State Military Reserves in
1995
> after 31 years in the Army and the Reserves, primarily with intelligence
> groups, said it had taken a long time for him to decide to come out. "The
culture
> of the military is that you go along and conform," he said. "And you keep
your
> private life to yourself."
>
> The officers said that the Defense Department and White House had not
> adequately addressed the problem of harassment.
>
> "It is important that they engage the harassment issue," Admiral Steinman,
> who lives in Dupont, Wash., said. "It needs to be tackled more forcefully.
And
> the president could set the tone."
>
> General Kerr agreed. "The president seems reluctant to emphasize the
> antiharassment part of the `don't ask, don't tell' policy," he said in an
interview
> from his home in Santa Rosa, Calif. "He just doesn't feel this is a
serious
> issue."
>
> General Richard said he thought the policy had damaged military readiness
and
> recruitment and retention of soldiers. "There are gays and lesbians who
want
> to serve honorably and with integrity, but have been forced to
compromise," he
> said in an interview from his home in Austin, Tex. "It is a matter of
honor
> and integrity."
>
> ========================================
>
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