Dave,
<quote> I'm sorry I called you a moron. You are a moron, but it wasn't
nice of me to point it out. I plagiarized those lines from a Canadian moron
just like you. tee hee hee. I hope you are still laughing. If you don't
get the joke that proves just how big a moron you are. <unquote>
All humor touches on a serious issue; the saying "You either laugh or you
cry" sums it up rather well. I wrote the lead paragraph of this email to
illustrate the gray area between sarcasm / biting humor and personal
attacks. Not everyone is going to "get it". If you use humor like that
some people will be offended. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.
Yes Dave I got the humor in the piece that Atwood quoted. I really enjoyed
your words as well. Thank you. I do, however, think it fair to point out
that while much of the humor in the piece Atwood quoted was self-deprecating
the first couple of "jokes" were not.
On a different topic ...
>It's ok tho, Americans aren't supposed to Understand it. That's part of the
>Joke...
I could say that a lot of Americans do understand it ... but that would be
undiplomatic. ;-)
P.S. In any case I think you are all just jealous of my 'Atwood-Atmar axis'
quip. A three word alliteration no less. Such wit! Such style! ...
Such self-promotion.
Cortlandt Wilson
(650) 966-8555
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
>Behalf Of Dave Swanson
>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:05 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: A Canadian View Point (ad hominem)
>
>
>I just gotta say in Atwood's defence (me being a fellow Canuck and all) I
>think he was joking. Scratch that, I KNOW he was joking. Americans have a
>difficult time with Canadian Humour and Atwood's post was a copy/paste job
>of a very Canadian satirical comedian by the name of Rick Mercer,
>so I guess
>it's completely understandable that many of you Americans would get all
>bristly and frothy about the mouth. But really for the good of our
>cross-boarder relations, Americans are simply not meant to see Mr. Mercer's
>Comedy. It's for Internal Canadian consumption only. That's why it's on the
>CBC.
>
>On a side note, for every foaming, heat-filled post that is made by an
>American in response to Atwoods post is quite likely to generate a great
>number of gaffahs among the Canadian audience of the list. It seems that we
>as a nation simply love to jerk the chain of our American Cousins. And we
>love seeing that chain jerked. Some might argue that it's akin to teasing a
>large caged predatory carnivore with a stick. Some might also argue that
>it's not exactly smart. And some might argue that you'll get no argument
>from Canadians on that subject.
>
>You need to BE Canadian to understand what it means to be Canadian. Even
>then it takes YEARS of self-analysis, self-discovery, self-criticism,
>self-contempt, and self-loathing. Really the entire Canadian population is
>nothing but a bunch of inferiority complex sufferers. How could we not be
>growing up next door to the Great American Republic and being
>inundated with
>her culture and her ideals, yet still like any free and independent nation,
>struggling to secure our own Cultural distinction and Identity.
>
>It's why folks like Rick Mercer are not just labeled "Comedian",
>but instead
>granted the title of "Canadian Comedian" and treated like cultural
>icons (no
>not "Stars" those are American too)
>
>It's ok tho, Americans aren't supposed to Understand it. That's part of the
>Joke...
>
>Oh! Ca! Na! Da!
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cortlandt Wilson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 11:46 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: A Canadian View Point (ad hominem)
>
>
>Greg,
>
>>Your post reinforces the attitude of most of the rest of the world,
>>excluding the US-apologists, that the US is dominated by self-centred
>>myopic arrogant aggressive testosterone-driven rednecks.
>
>I say doom on all your houses. I submit that your email is proof that the
>entire world is full of the kind of people you describe above. A man had a
>knee-jerk reaction to several arrogant and aggressive pieces of
>sarcasm that
>were calculated to get someone riled up. Wirt kicked in his bit. The
>attack pieces worked. Someone got riled up. So what?
>
>> ... you can leave at any time you wish. Do us all a favour.
>
>So you respond back with insults. I submit that you got a bit
>riled up and
>responded in kind. In other words, Greg I say you critise others for the
>very behavior that you indulge in. I suggest sticking to logic, reasoned
>arguments, and valid information. Leave the psychological analysis to
>experts.
>
>Side note: I would give some points to the Atwood-Atmar axis of venom; they
>at least allowed a small sense of humor in their mud slinging.
>
>>And the rest of your well-reasoned, intellectually advanced post
>>continues on the same high level.
>
>Hello? Until now very little in this entire "A Canadian View Point" has
>been what I would call intellectual. Sarcastic, posturing, ad hominem,
>full of name calling, yes. Intellectual, no. Take for instance your
>first sentence which neatly pigeon-holes everyone who might not fit into
>your global generalization as a US-apologist. I don't consider that line
>as an example of a intellectually advanced argument. I know that
>intellectuals do resort to this type of rhetoric (we are human after all)
>but when we calm down the honest ones will own up to their error.
>
>P.S. Regarding arrogance and all the rest. You can be arrogant and
>history may still prove you right. I can be as meek as a lamb
>and be shown
>to be tragically wrong. That is why ad hominem arguments are listed among
>other logical fallacies.
>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
>
>Cortlandt Wilson
>(650) 966-8555
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
>>Behalf Of Greg Chaplin
>>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 5:24 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: A Canadian View Point
>>
>>
>>Wow, what a statement: "Nelson Mandela is a communist murderer".
>>It certainly grabs one's attention.
>>And the rest of your well-reasoned, intellectually advanced post
>>continues on the same high level.
>>
>>Do you really think like that, or is your post tongue-in-cheek?
>>
>>If you hate the rest of the world so much then you, and others like
>>you, can leave at any time you wish. Do us all a favour.
>>
>>Your post reinforces the attitude of most of the rest of the world,
>>excluding the US-apologists, that the US is dominated by self-centred
>>myopic arrogant aggressive testosterone-driven rednecks.
>>
>>I would like to believe that you are not typical of the average US
>>citizen. I despair for the future of my children if you are.
>>
>>>>> "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> 17/03/2003 08:36:27
>>am >>>
>>Nelson Mandela is a communist murderer. So who cares what he has tgo
>>say.
>>Perhaps the dixie chicks, and anyone else who hates us should take mr
>>atwoods lead and just leave.
>>If the canadians hate us so much then they can stop selling thier
>>products
>>here too.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Wirt Atmar" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 4:28 PM
>>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: A Canadian View Point
>>
>>
>>> Tim quotes a Canadian author:
>>>
>>> > I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron.
>>> >
>>> > He is a moron, but it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's
>>any
>>> > consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly
>>on the
>>> > people of America. After all it's not like you actually elected
>>him.
>>>
>>> That's all right. The Dixie Chicks just said four days ago while in
>>England
>>> that they too were ashamed that George Bush is president. Due to
>>pressure
>>at
>>> home they were later forced to apologize (although I'm not sure that
>>they
>>> meant it). Nelson Mandela however remains steadfast in his belief
>>that
>>Bush
>>> is a "person who doesn't know how to reason."
>>>
>>> ======================================
>>>
>>> NASHVILLE, Tenn. (March 16) - The Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines, who
>>told a
>>> London audience earlier this week that she was ``ashamed'' of
>>President
>>Bush,
>>> said Friday she's sorry for her comment.
>>>
>>> ``As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush
>>because
>>my
>>> remark was disrespectful,'' the singer said in a statement. ``I feel
>>that
>>> whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost
>>respect.''
>>>
>>> The Dixie Chicks, who are from Texas, are on a European tour. While
>>in
>>> London, Maines told the audience, ``Just so you know, we're ashamed
>>the
>>> president of the United States is from Texas.''
>>>
>>> Angry phone calls flooded a Nashville radio station on Thursday,
>>some
>>calling
>>> for a boycott of the trio's music. Two Dallas stations stopped
>>playing the
>>> group's music because of Maines' comments.
>>>
>>> The popular group won three Grammys last month for their
>>multi-platinum
>>disc
>>> ``Home.'' They have the No. 1 country song with ``Travelin'
>>Soldier,''
>>about
>>> a soldier in Vietnam.
>>>
>>> On Friday, Maines said the group is ``witnessing a huge
>>anti-American
>>> sentiment as a result of the perceived rush to war'' while on tour
>>in
>>Europe.
>>>
>>> ``While war may remain a viable option, as a mother, I just want to
>>see
>>every
>>> possible alternative exhausted before children and American
>>soldiers'
>>lives
>>> are lost,'' she said. ``I love my country. I am a proud American.''
>>>
>>> Maines' contrite statement is in contrast to her comments on
>>Thursday,
>>when
>>> she said: ``I feel the president is ignoring the opinion of many in
>>the
>>U.S.
>>> and alienating the rest of the world. My comments were made in
>>frustration,
>>> and one of the privileges of being an American is you are free to
>>voice
>>your
>>> own point of view.''
>>>
>>> The Dixie Chicks will kick off a U.S. tour on May 1 in Greenville,
>>S.C.
>>The
>>> group's other hits include ``Wide Open Spaces,'' ``Ready to Run''
>>and
>>> ``Landslide.''
>>>
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>> Wirt Atmar
>>>
>>> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
>>> * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>>>
>>
>>* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
>>* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>>
>>* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
>>* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>
>* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
>* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
>
>* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
>* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
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