On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:26:48 -0600, Mike Wallace <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>> > I'm familiar with Dr. Black and his life and times in rec.scuba. >>

( snip )

>In my younger days I was a callous son of a bitch that wouldn't
>think twice about telling someone who had just stupidly killed
>themselves what a dumb ass they were.

Okay Mike, today is Feb 2, so you know I've thought at least twice
about your statements.  In spite of the fact that the THREE deaths
in question have very little (if anything) in common with the SEVEN
astronauts who died, there ARE similarities in how we view the
outcomes of their demise.


Am I to read this to mean:

1.  All those who said he "just stupidly killed themselves" or
    "what a dumb ass they were" are callous sons of a bitch?
    I didn't say it, but I wouldn't criticize anyone as being
    "a callous son of a bitch" if they said it of EITHER Dr. Black
    OR those two dumb asses who killed themselves ice-diving,
    under the circumstances which were reported.

    What about all those who flamed those who died diving deep
    air, deep cave, deep free-dive and died?   Are they any
    different from the astronauts who died?  For the most part,
    THEY knew the risks, just as the astronaut did <if the
    astronauts didn't, they would be REALLY dumb asses>; they
    CHOSE to take the risk, as all others did. (Sheck and a few
    others, e.g.)
OR

2.  In your older days, you're now a callous son of a bitch for
    saying (1) to anyone who said those things where they had
    thought twice or not, before they said it?


But wait!  There's more <in the voice of ginzu-knife salesmen on
TV>:

>The older I get the more I think about what death does to those
>are still here.

I don't care how old you are, how do YOU know what death do to
family members of those whom you DON'T know?

Take Dr. Black, please <that's what Henny Youngman would say>

But take Dr. Black, e.g., he is the product of his family members,
to a large extent.  How do YOU know they are not RELIEVED that
he was dead, rather than living longer, tormenting himself and
all those around him, assuming he had given THEM as much shit as
he had given the others;  or how do YOU know that they deserve
sympathy for having caused Dr. Black (in his up bringing) to be
the son of a bitch that Black was?  I can think of a hundred OTHER
scenarios for which one would have VERY DIFFERENT feelings about
someone one KNOWS.

That's why I use my non-commital statements, such as "it's THEIR
bitness", and I have given THAT kind of statements much more though
than anyone else on this list (that's because I am OLDER than all
of you!  :-))

Take the two icedivers -- in this case, there is NO QUESTION that
none of us know anything about them, or their families, other than
they PROBABLY did something "stupid", and Darwin took care of them!


FINALLY, I am going to challenge all those who wouldn't think twice
(though I wouldn't call THEM sons of a bitch though ;-) to use the
cliches (even as cliches, they are OVERUSED), such as

1. "I have feelings for the friends and family that he left behind"

I have already discussed the cases of Dr. Black and the two ice
divers as to why this is a meaningless cliche and just lip service
that few (except a son of a bitch like Feeesh would dare challenge)
when you DON'T know anything about them.

Take the astronauts.  There may be MORE reasons to mutter up feelings
for such, but for all we know, anyone of the astronauts and his/her
family could be like that of one of the icedivers, whom we know little
or nothing.   But ask yourself -- would you say the same things about
those who CHOSE to dive deep on AIR and died?  Who tried to set some
kind of "stoopid record" (as many would say, but wouldn't say such
about the astronauts) and died?

Give some of these a SECOND thought.


2.  My prayers are with their families tonite.

It's no secret that I DON'T believe in prayers because:

a.  None ever worked.

b.  People use prayers for the most frivolous things:
    Pray for their football team to win.  Since both teams pray for
    the same jihad-damed thing, I KNOW god would be pissed at such
    prayers.

c.  What about praying to win a WAR (which is synonymous to KILLING
    more of the other bad guys).  I would send all those praying
    sons of bitches to 30 years in purgatory if I were God each time
    they make such a prayer!

d.  What can one expect the prayers will do to THEIR families?

e.  For whose who pride themselves reading and quoting the "Bible",
    it says somewhere to the effect that God already KNOW what you
    pray before you say the first word!  And less complimentary
    things about those who pray aloud in front of temples.


Just as I believe there is only ONE rule one needs to heed in scuba,
"Know YOUR limits (and limitations), and dive WITHIN it",

the only rule I believe about God, prayer, and religion, is:
"God help those who help themselves".  That goes along with all the
other stuff I believe:  self-responsibility, self-sufficiency,
self-INDEPEDENT-thinking, and self-criticisms!   Yup, I am a
hard-ass son of a bitch when it comes to those principles.

Stepping off soapbox on a fine Sunday Morning, the day after 7
astronauts died, war-related bombing in which plenty died all over
the world, and Bush says his prayers go to the families of the
astronauts while he pushes everyday to KILL, KILL, and KILL, be it
Iraq, Afganistan, or elsewhere in the Middle East.

Does BUSH or anyone who sympathizes with his war plans and FEABLE
excuses for promoting such terrorist atrocities ever stop and
PRAY for ANY of the families of the INNOCENT people in Iraq, or
families of the Iraq soldiers who are killed?  Does anyone who
believes there is JUST CAUSE for any of the ongoing wars pray and
say all those nice things about the "enemies" and their families
who are killed by OUR weapons?

Whatever happened to the Commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Kill"?  I
don't recall that has any asterisks referring to fineprints of
circumstances under which that Commandment is "excempt" or can be
"waived" until the other sons of bitches are all killed.  ;-)

Now it's your turn to give ALL THESE things some thoughts DEEPER
than you can ever do on trimix or any gas you've sniffing, before
you call anyone ELSE a "callous son of a bitch".

As for "people who live in glass houses", they CAN throw as much
stone as they like IF they first build their glass houses with
bullet-proof GLASS (it's the 21st century, ya know -- the cliche
of yester-centuries don't apply now, for the THINKING man who
learns from history as well as modern facts and thoughts).  :-))))

It's those folks who haven't given much thought to what kind of
houses they live ln, let alone what kind of glass to build them,
and who are quick to condemn others but slow to reason that have
something to work and build on.

As the story goes for the widow who wants to put in the newspaper
an orbitury for his deceased husband, "Bob Palmer is dead", and
was informed by the newspaper personnel that such a listing must
be more than 4 words, thought for merely two seconds, and said,
"Bob Palmer is dead.  His golf clubs are for sale."

So, when Bob da Feeesh is dead, you can say "Da Feeesh is dead, and
if pressed to say more, "Da Feeesh is dead.  Read his FREE sermons
in the scuba archieves."

The LISTSERV Reverend Bob "Bob" (who defined and preached about
"Clueless Newbies" on LISTS and internet groups) wannabee.  :-)

-- Bob.