John Wolff Wrote :

> I am quite aware of the previous software crippling for
> HP3000 systems such
> as the 918 to 928, etc.  However, here we have an entirely different
> situation.  ALL current HPe3000 models are crippled!

Not all of them. The "old" 550-MHz and current 750-MHz models are full
speed, i.e. uncrippled.

> In the past there was always a way to upgrade a lower level
> (crippled) CPU
> to the full speed (uncrippled) CPU performance.  This, of
> course, allowed
> them to "create" multiple performance points with fewer
> actual processor
> models.

There still is. You can upgrade a crippled e3000 to an uncrippled one. As an
example :

- Base system : 380-MHz PA-8700 powered e3000 (crippled by 50%)
- Upgrade to 750-MHz (uncrippled) : order P/N A7043A (upgrade kit),
A7015AN#001 (return credit for 380-MHz CPU), A7017A (750-MHz CPU) and
memory.

> With the current HPe3000 offerings (A & N Classes)
> there is no
> path, other than converting them into HP9000's, that will
> achieve full CPU
> performance.

Yes, there is. Please see example above.

> The fastest speed obtainable with the HPe3000
> N-Class is an
> effective 500MHz with PA-8700 processors (using HP's calculated
> performance).  This stunted result is achieved with a CPU
> capable of at
> least 650MHz.

It's actually 750 MHz, with a 750-MHz capable CPU. There is also an 875-MHz
PA-8700 chip, but this new baby is only available in the 9000, er ...
rp5470/rp7410 range.

> To put it another way, the slowest low-end entry point
> PA-risc HP9000 you
> can buy today is 650MHz,

Not true. The smallest/slowest HP9000 you can buy is the rp2400 with 1
PA-8500 CPU@440 MHz.

> while the fastest and newest (just
> introduced with
> great fanfare) HPe3000 is only an effective 500MHz using the same
> hardware.

Not true. The fastest HPe3000 uses the 750-MHz full-speed PA-8700 chip.

> Why has it been concluded by HP that HPe3000 users have no
> need for more
> speed?

That's all about marketing. Call it price/performance, pricing points,
etc... It all gets down to marketing.

> What justification could there possibly be for this
> difference in
> startegy?

I can see at least one, and it's called DBMS. It's well-known that
TurboImage is especially efficient, perhaps the most efficient DBMS you can
dream of. It runs on MPE, period. What do we have on Unix ? Oracle, Sybase,
Ingres Informix, all rDBMSs. If you compare TurboImage to the most efficient
rDBMS of the universe, you're stuck with a 4:1 (approx.) performance gap.
Hence the "justification" for software crippling.

> I am sure this strange product line is not at the
> request of
> users to keep their HPe3000's throttled so they don't get out
> of control.
> Of course, MPE/iX uninhibited would run rings around a similar speed
> HP9000  --  it would be most embarassing for HP to have to
> admit that the
> obsolete MPE/iX is faster than the modern wonderful HP-UX!

Not that much. Actually, most of the difference does not come from the OS
per se, but from the DBMS. TurboImage on one side, and rDBMS on the other
side. Put an rDBMS on MPE, and most of your performance advantage would
probably disappear.

> I must conclude
> that it has nothing to do with keeping prices low or some
> technical issue
> or other altruistic claims.

To the best of my knowledge, it has everything to do with maintaining
consistent price/performance ratios within a give product family (e.g. the
HPe3000 product line), and across product lines (e.g. 3000 v. 9000, with the
DBMS facored in).

> This is simply a mis-guided
> marketing strategy
> gone wrong with the goal of getting rid of MPE/iX in favor of HP-UX.

Whether that marketing strategy is justified or not, has underlying
afterthoughts or not, has hidden motivations or not, I sure can't offer much
more than my own reasoning.

> On top of all this, you get to pay more for the HPe3000 model than the
> equivalent HP9000 model to which they will graciously demote
> your HPe3000
> to at no cost, whenever you are ready.

Well, you get what you pay for. An HPe3000 is ALWAYS sold as a SOLUTION, and
NEVER as a standalone SERVER. What that means is that an HPe3000 solution
include the server itself, base memory, base CPU, OS (MPE/iX itself), DBMS
(TurboImage), unlimited number of users, and one of the most fantastic
collection of utilities you can dream of.

On the other hand, an HP9000 is almost always sold as a bare server, where
you get an empty system with no CPU, no memory, no disk, etc. Then you add
up what is missing. Sure, HP-UX is also bundled with the server, unlimited
licence as well. But it does not have a DBMS. Add the cheapest DBMS you can
find (HP Eloquence is the name that pops up in my mind right away), and
watch your price tag creep up. Or add the rDBMS-of-the-day (Oracle,
Informix, Sybase, whatever), and watch your price tag skyrocket !!!!

What's more (but thay may depend on HP regions, price lists, specific
conditions ...), different servers may be sold at differents discount
levels.

As I wrote, you only get what you pay for.

> As was pointed out  previously, it
> makes more sense to sell the HPe3000 machines used, as is, rather than
> convert them to HP9000's.

Yes, that may make sense. A case-by-case analysis would be needed.

> You could probably buy a new
> HP9000 with the
> proceeds and have change left over (depending on market timing).

I agree market timing is important. It may (or may not ...) allow you to use
specific discount levels to the best of your advantage.

> John Wolff

Christian Lheureux

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