Accident of birth is not correct.  Many people did (and still do) come to
the U.S. to give birth to their children, so that their children are then
citizens of the U.S.

Ray Shahan

"Life is what happens while you're busy making plans", John Lennon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Barker [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:07 AM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: OT: Pledge of Allegiance ? Was church and state
>
> Sorry I can't resist responding.
>
> Actually I don't personally have a strong point of view either way about
> the
> Royal family, they bring in lots a tourist money or so I'm led to believe.
> I think they can still exist, but I think we should get rid of all their
> power and stop paying them any money.
>
> I don't sing the national Anthem (of Britain), as I'm an agnostic and not
> a
> great supporter of the crown, so "God save our gracious Queen", etc, would
> be a bit hypocritical of me.
>
> Maybe my question sounded sarcastic, but I actually wanted to know, I
> don't
> really even know what the pledge of Allegiance is.  I assume it's some
> patriotic speech about America and that would make me cringe even if
> Britain
> had the same.  I personally see Patriotism/Nationalism as a very dangerous
> thing, it's elitist, it's saying I'm proud, not because of myself, my
> character or personal achievements, but because I was born one side of an
> artificially defined border, separating one country from another ("nothing
> but accident of birth as the dividing point.")
>
> I was taught in school, that Britain gave up the US, or rather didn't want
> to spend more money and effort trying to defeat the uprising when they
> didn't assign much value, at the time, to America.  India with all their
> Tea
> was deemed more valuable.  How times change.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Berkowitz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 03 July 2002 16:47
> To: 'Richard Barker'; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: RE: OT: Pledge of Allegiance ? Was church and state
>
>
> Richard Barker writes
>
>
> Actually, seriously, why do you have a pledge of Allegiance
>
> Insecurity :-)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, seriously, why do you need divide people into two groups:
> Commoners and royalty, with nothing but accident of birth as the dividing
> point.  Add to it the toadying of the commoners to the royalty.  Why
> should
> Tony Blair bow to Mrs. Windsor-Mountbatten, but not not the other way
> around?  He worked himself up to his current position on the approval of
> the
> majority (voters), has.  Can the same be said of the residents of
> Buckingham
> Palace?
>
> Mike Berkowitz
> a republican with a small "r" on this Independence Day, the day we told
> royalty to take a hike
> Guess? Inc.
>
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