On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:59:59 -0500, Mike Wallace <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

Mike, I've covered many points of yours implicitly in my reply to
Al Kirkland's new thread.  In particular, I think most of our
disagreements were in what I called my "SECOND VERY important point"
in that post, about the Hughes's contract being very different,
from any other waiver to which you and others refer.

So, I'll skip all those points here, and beat some horses that hadn't
been beaten to death before.  :-)


>> >Just because the signed a waiver does not mean that the proper
>> >authorities will not conduct an investigation.
>>
>> What "proper authority"?
>
>How about the governmental authorities of Belieze. Do you not think
>that they will investigate this accident?

Good point!  I look forward to reading about their finding, provided
they'll be available to the US public.


>How about the US Government? How about the US Coast Guard?

Not sure if they have the jurisdiction.  That's why, whether you
know it or not, NONE of the boats in the PhD and Aggressor Fleets
is registered in the US.   Too many sharks swimming around there. ;)

>This boat is registered in the US

Nope.  Belize.


>How about the company that insured this vessel?

That's the best candidate mentioned to date!  But they are likely
to be less concerned with the SCUBA aspects of possible impropriety
than property damage to the BOAT, with which none of us seemed
particularly concerned.


>> >It would amaze me if
>> >they declined to investigate such a serious accident regardless of
>> >what the passengers signed.
>>
>> By they you mean someone in the Peter Hughes organization?
>
>No I didn't mean Peter Hughes or his organization, I mean the
>proper authorities as mentioned above. But you can bet your butt
>that Peter Hughes will investigate it fully also.

I don't take bets in Scuba-SE that I MAY lose.   :-)  But I don't
think Peter Hughes is going to volunteer to the public ANYTHING
damaging about his Fleet, even if he does do an in-house
investigation, given the financial and other predicaments he is
facing already, and HIS butt is already in deep doodoo.  Sorry,
I've beaten THIS horse already:

>There is
>> no incentive for them, given the WAIVER.  Even if they do an internal
>> investigation, do you really think they'll let the PUBLIC know any
>> damaging result to themselves?
>
>There is every incentive, regarless of the "WAIVER".

I don't quite see the reason.

> No, I would not
>expect them to make PUBLIC any internal investigation results,
>whether it was damaging to them or not, their internal investigation is
>not the public's business as far as I'm concerned.

Then how would it benefit ME, or US, as clients or concerned
parties of his operation, to have him having make an investigation
and have all the facts concealed from us?


>> Don't forget that Peter Hughes has a team of lawyers who worked up
>> those "air-tight" clauses.  The odds are overwhelming in THEIR favor.
>
>And the people who contest this waiver will have a team of lawyers
>who's livelihoods are derived from taking these "air-tight" clauses
>apart in the courts. I do not agree that the odds are "overwhelming"
>in their favor, although I will agree that the odds are in their favor
>initially.

Ah, we finally found a place of agreement!  :-)  I am as eager as
the next person to see which of these lawyer teams win in the mud-
wrestling match!


>> Read this clause carefully (only ONE of 20):
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> 12.  I understand and agree
>>                              (WAIVER AND RELEASE)
>> freely and voluntarily. forever, to release, discharge, waive and
>> relinquish, in favor of the Releasee, any and all claims, demands or
>> causes of action, whether matured or unmatured,foreseen or unforeseen,
>> arising from, or inconnection with, any of the Activities including,
>> without limitation, those for or relating to accident, personal
>> injury, illness, theft, property damage and/or wrongful death occurring
>> to me, arising out of, relating to, or as a result of my engaging in
>> the Activities, wherever and however much injuries, damages or death
>> may occur and for whatever period of time the Activities may continue,
>> whether caused by negligence of Releasee or otherwise.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Signed by all passengers.   Find a lawyer to beat it or a case in which
>> it was beaten!
>
>Big deal. As divers we have all signed waivers such as this

See the HORSE I beat in Al Kirkland's new thread.  :-)

-- Bob.