Hello Tracy and all HP3000-L friends,

Please don't take what follows in an offensive way, it's surely not meant as
such from my part. My  most sincere apologies in anticipation if there's any
confusion.

While I don't have a very firm religious affiliation for myself (though my
first name is Christian), I also think there are many, many positive values
in religion, whatever the name you put on the religion, call it Christian,
jewish, muslim, buddhist, whatever. Most religions I am aware of, including
all the ones I mentioned by name, support values of tolerance, moderation,
acceptance of other beliefs, etc. What kills is not religion itself, but the
blatant excess of religion, and what people do with this excess of religion.
In other words, I support people who believe in God, people who believe in
God under another name, people who believe in another god (if there's one,
which is questionable), people who believe in no specific entity.

More specifically about the WTC attack :

AFAIK, Muslim fundamentalists are behind this attack. My concern is surely
not with the word "muslim" but with the word "fundamentalists". While I
wholeheartedly support a wide range of beliefs (see above), I really have a
problem with fundamentalists of any flavor, be they muslim, jewish,
catholic, protestant, whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that it's
not the belief that killed, it's the fundamentalism. I just cannot swallow
that kind of excess. Or any kind of excess, for that matter.

A similar rationale is behind arms control. While it's commonly heard that
guns don't kill by themselves but people do, some countries (including mine)
have implemented tough arms control procedures. The rationale is to limit
people's access to guns to avoid the most blatant excess not of guns by
themselves (people are perfectly allowed to collect decommissionned guns)
but of gun usage (you're not allowed to carry a gun here, unless you have a
specific permit for this).

Does that mean we should limit religion ? If we interpret what I wrote
above, surely not. Does that mean we should limit access to religion ? This
is a very tough question. In a democracy, like your country and mine
certainly are, it may simply not be possible without severely compromising
the very concept of democracy, which then would simply be unacceptable. A
way to limit the most blatant excesses of religion without hampering
democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of opinon and belief and other core
notions would be for people to accept some measure of control, like being
able to permanently justify your identity, controlled access to commercial
airliners, controlled access to public buildings, no parking in front of
schools, air terminals, train stations... These measures are already
implemented in Europe, some having been for decades. I've read that the mood
is changing in the USA these days, toward more controlled access.

BTW, the paragraph above goes for all kind of attacks, not only those
related to religious fundamentalism. The implementation of similar measures
in Europe goes back to attacks by ultra-leftist groups in the mid-70s. Who
remembers the Italian Red Brigades these days ? Or France's Action Directe ?
Or Germany's Baader-Meinkopf Band ? They were not religious fundamentalists,
but caused a lot of mayhem anyway.

That being said, I have no news from a close friend of mine who works (used
to work ?) at the Deutsche Bank in Manhattan. The probability of this person
being a victim of the WTC attack is tiny. In fact, we have lost sight of
each other for a number of years. He might have left NYC or work for another
company. Deutsche Bank has about 20 buildings in Manhattan, many of them far
enough from WTC to be untouched. He might also have been travelling. But
just in case, if anyone can direct me to someone at the Deutsche Bank, or
help me find a e-mail address, I'd be grateful. Of course I've tried the
Deutsche Bank website for corporate contacts, HR stuff and the like, so far
to no avail. This friend's name is Mohamed Ghalmi. He is a French citizen, b
orn in Casablanca, Morocco, in 1961. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I've also had mail replies from other friends living in or near Greenwich
Village. They are well and safe, and that's very, very good.

All my thoughts now go to the victim's families and loved ones.

Christian "corporate sig removed, cause this is personal" Lheureux

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]De la
> part de Tracy Pierce
> Envoyé : mercredi 12 septembre 2001 18:36
> À : [log in to unmask]
> Objet : [HP3000-L] FW: USA under attack
>
>
> Patrick,
>
> I don't expect to be forgiven for my rude anti-religion
> comment, but I would
> like to apologize:  I'm very sorry I didn't have the decency
> to just hit
> delete instead of send; I'll try to be better in the future.
>
> I'd also like to point out that while may post was in reply
> to your mention
> of prayer, it was not intended as a personal attack.
>
> I personally don't believe in any god, but a few resultant
> private threads
> have convinced me of several positive values of churches and
> gods, despite
> my inability to accept them for myself.
>
> I still harbor the sentiment I intended to express, which was
> to point out
> that religion is a most powerful influence on these
> perpetrators of evil;
> that could easily have been left unsaid.
>
> I sincerely hope your family is intact and well; clearly many
> are broken.
>
> Tracy Pierce
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tracy Pierce
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:35 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: RE: USA under attack
> >
> >
> > Religion kills.  While you have my sympathy re your relatives
> > and sense of helplessness, you might want to try an Islamic
> > temple instead, since you'll be slightly more likely to
> > communicate with the proper mercy monger.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Patrick Santucci [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:24 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: USA under attack
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, my family and I are heading off to church to pray for
> > > our country and
> > > our dead.
> > >
> > > And to beg the Lord for mercy on our country...
> > >
> > > Patrick (who has two brothers who work in NY and another
> > > brother in the
> > > Army)
> > >
> > > * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
> > > * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *
> > >
> >
>
> * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
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>

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