On Wed, 2 May 2001 08:40:09 +0000, John Hauer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>With over 1/2 of the 31 divers doing OW classes.

I've heard of "cattleboats", but this is something else!  :-)

>Tons of fish - a number of which we'd never seen before.
>I particularly liked the squid and the batfishes
>(although I had seen them before).

When the squids are swimming in formation (single file), that's
a sight to behold!

>Vicky liked the boxfishes and the turtles.

Not sure what you call "boxfishes" -- are the what are similar
to "cow fishes" in the Caribbean, or the guinea fowls that look
like boxes, or neither?  I've dived with so many turtles, large
and small, that we usually yawn at each other.  :-(  ).

>But, of course, that was not
>the limmit of our enjoyment. There are many "Great White
>(tipped reef) Sharks"

I saw hundreds of those Great While (tipped reef) sharks on
my last dive trip, to Cocos.

On my comment,

>> Others may join him in a Screaming Chorus too.
>> Diving CAVES (not a mere OW swim-through) without certification???

>Bob, we do intend to stay safe (so we can make it to the
>Caymans, and beyond) but, it still seems to me that some
>environments that we would not do alone can be available
>with expert guidance for developing divers like
>ourselves. I would not expect us to go in for deep caves
>of the order of serious technical divers.

My point (and those of many others I am sure) is that even
for CAVES (here we're clearly not speaking of swim-throughs),
even one that doesn't go in deep, even certified CAVERS have
been known to DIE within 10 meters or so of the exit.  It's
far better to have the requisite TRAINING first, as the
minimum prerequisite for attempting to dive caves, rather than
relying on "expert guidance" of others.  Those "experts" have
been known to die themselves.  ;-)

Nobody has ever accused me of being a "chicken diver" (all too
many have flamed me to be 'too bold' in my diving style <G>),
but I just don't think it's wise to venture into something
inadquately prepare/trained and not be self-reliant.


>I guess the model at fault here might be the Padi model.
>We did our first dives on a tourist/resort course. By no
>means was that a certification, but we went diving (with
>a guide). We were told the basics, and then put in the
>water with tanks on our backs. From that came the
>interest to get certified for real.

But the resort-dive to OW-certification route is not a very
good analogy to diving-cave-without-training to cave-cert
route.  Few (if any) die in the former;  many die in the
latter before being cave-certified.

Can't really blame that one on PADI!  :-)

>It's kind of like "tease marketing." I'd suspect you'll
>have something to say about that.

The only thing I have to say about that is:  "If Strike
offers to sell you a sq.in of real estate in Hong Kong
CHEAP <BG>, you DON'T HAVE to buy it."  I didn't.  :-))

>Or, what about putting tanks on 8 year old kids???

I am ambivalent to that idea.  It's up to the PARENTS to
decide.  My kid is already over 30.  :-)

>They are somewhat ignorant,
>yes, but can they be guided? I guess we'll find out the
>answer to that.

They are generally very ignorant and irresponsible compared
to adult divers, but the ENVIRONMENT in which an 8-yr old
dives, I presume, is closed supervised (one on one) in a
shallow surrounding in which the adult can easily OVERPOWER
the kid to safety if the kid can't be guided.  :-)

I see ANOTHER new thread in the making -- scuba diving for
under 10 yr-olds.

>(Anyway, feel free to send me details of overhead cert
>courses. I'm all for better education!)

Ask PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc. and THEY should be able to tell
you what Specialty courses they offer (as an agency) and
what they (the instructors in a dive shop) can offer.  If
is definitely NOT a self-study reading course.  :-)
>
>Anyway, I suspect I'll have a chance to get back to you
>all in about a week or so.
>
>John

I look forward to reading your undersea adventures while I
am doing mine with Meeeter Crusty in Cozumel!   :-)

-- Bob.