At 01:41 PM 1/25/2001 -0800, Gavin Scott wrote:
>Brian writes:
> > I think that it is a toss-up between C++ and Java but there are obviously
> > fanatics on both sides.
>
>If you don't have any real Object Oriented programming experience, then I
>would highly recommend *learning* with Java, even if you knew you wanted to
>be a C++ programmer.  It's almost impossible to make any sense out of OO if
>you try to learn it using C++, especially if you're trying to learn it on
>your own.  Once you see how a language that's *designed* to be an OO
>language works, then you can see how all the cruft in C++ lets you
>accomplish the same thing (in a rather ugly way).
>
>Regardless of what you think of Java as a *real* programming language, it's
>an ideal language for teaching/learning programming in the modern world of
>OO class libraries/foundations/frameworks that you have to use to write code
>in a reasonable time for systems with complex user interfaces and the like.

But Gavin, it seems like only last year that you and I agreed on your above
stated sentiments with the variation that the "pure OO" language was
Smalltalk.  I (and I believe you) started this OO learning curve with
Smalltalk/V and were better served than if we had gone for C++.

I agree that if you want to learn pure OO then Java or Smalltalk is the way
to go.
If you want to learn C++, take my advice and pick and chose the features
that you use because as Gavin quietly implies, C++ is not really an OO
language and some of C++'s [un]features yield an overly complex result.

So, learn Smalltalk or Java and then use Java or C++.


>A surprising number of schools have or are switching to Java as the standard
>introductory computer programming language.

It sure has the effect of keeping the book writers and publishers in food
and drink when the wind changes direction!
I wonder how those academics ever maintain their legacy code.  Maybe they
still remember the APL technique of re-write if you ever need to change
it.  ;]]

Once you have this under your belt, the next flavour of the MSDN release
seems to be c##



Brian Duncombe  [log in to unmask]  http://www.triolet.com
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"Inside every large program is a small one struggling to get out"
C.A.R. Hoare