Now that I have a little time between trips and between packing for my
future move to TN <G>, I am catching up a few follow-ups, starting with
the first post in this GINGER thread:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:00:54 -0400, Chuck Shipley wrote:
>On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, David Strike wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> When diving - especially from a live-aboard - I *try* and avoid taking
>> drugs of any type. Which left a fairly limited field of options. One of
>> the ancient remedies, however, was the use of ginger; ginger-beer; ginger
>> biscuits; neat ginger root, etc. Apparently recent clinical studies
suggest
>> that this is so, and that ginger has a superior action in the treatment
of
>> motion sickness when compared with synthetic drugs.
Strike! Remember this Feeesh Rule of Thumb <a serious one>:
Unless you have reason to believe a "medical/clinical" study was DESIGNED,
PERFORMED, and ANALYZED properly, pay no heed. MOST of such studies are
motivated by "academic money grubbing in the name of 'research'", and
the "researchers", M.D.s and the like are generally not very well versed
in the design and analysis of such "studies", and their conclusions are
NOT supported by the studies at least 97% of the time!
Harvard University is the ONLY one in the world that has a JOINT
Program in M.D.(Medicine) and Ph.D.(in Statistics) -- that's right,
two EARNED doctoral degrees that take a minimum of 8 years of grad
school study to complete -- in order to for RESEARCHERS in medicine
to learn HOW to do so properly!
One of the students in my Advanced Seminar course in the Department
of Statistics at Harvard was such a student, seeking his Ph.D
degree in Stat., AFTER he had completed his M.D. at the Harvard Medical
School. I would STILL not trust his published findings with blind
faith, UNLESS I've read them and concluded they were properly done.
For properly conducted clinical studies, look MINIMALLY for such
terms as "double blind", and randomized assignment of subjects in
the "design" and "control" of the study.
>> They certainly seem to work for me.
Then you don't NEED any pseudo "study" as your crutch. :-)
Just say that IT WORKS FOR ME. (As Lawrence Leong did) :-) That's
all that matters -- if a placebo WORKS consistently for a patient,
then the placebo COULD BE a better drug for THAT patient than the
drug being tested against (e.g., eating vegemite with beer, say)
itself. Think about that one. :-)) Or kui kui oil. :)
>I agree with Strike's comments above, and I too use ginger (capsules)
>whenever it looks like the seas will be rough. If they look like they are
>going to be "very rough", then I use something stronger, and that always
>makes me so dopey that I wonder why I am bothering.
To keep from getting SEA SICK! I DON'T take any drugs that make me
dopey (such as dramamin) while I am DIVING, or DRIVING, or anything
else that requires me NOT to be dopey. :-) But for LONG crossings,
being "dopey" is a GREAT PLUS (to be able to sleep WHILE you're trying
to SLEEP, without being interrupted by bouts of barfing!)
>But I am not really just posting to say "me too" (never worth doing) but
>because Strike mentioned "recent clinical studies" as being favorable.
>That jarred my memory, and I found on my HD the following reference that
>is *not* so favorable:
I have ALL of those you cited in my BHD too! :-) So much so that I'll
post the FOLLOW-UPS in that very thread -- because they are VERY
RELEVANT to the present one!
>=======
See these references in Chuck Shipley's post:
>From: [log in to unmask] (Tabby L. Stone)
>Date: 13 Sep 1994 10:40:56 -0700
>>From: Donald Steele <[log in to unmask]>
>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 11:22:44 -0500
>
>Kui kui oil....hmm, that's a new one I hadn't heard of ....
>
>Stewart JJ; Wood MJ; Wood CD; Mims ME
>
>Holtmann S; Clarke AH; Scherer H; Hohn M
>=======
Now some follow-ups to that 1994 thread:
=======================================================================
Date: 13 Sep 94 21:14:00 GMT
From: [log in to unmask] (Howard Reid)
TL>As far as studies showing efficacy of ginger:
TL>I did a medline search on the treatment of motion sickness a
TL>while back and the two references to the use of ginger are
TL>reprinted below. Despite lots of anecdotal reports including
TL>testimonials here on rec.scuba, these studies don't document that
TL>it works any better than a placebo.
Thanks Tabby, you have added to my KNOWLEDGE base. It is truly
refreshing to see "Real Data" posted here on the net.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 07:52:11 -0800
From: [log in to unmask] (Greg D'Hondt)
Subject: Re: Ginger <was Re: Dramamine>
In article <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] (Lee
Jones) wrote:
> Conclusion: If ginger root works for you, great. However, if you're
> looking for something and don't know what to try, scopolamine is the
> best choice.
>
> Regards, Lee
There is a new product on the market called "Merazine" in a green box. It
uses a slightly different ingredient than Bonine (which is the same as
Dramamine II). Note that both Bonine and Dramamine II are supposed to NOT
cause drowsiness, hence the same ingredient. Merazine seems to have gone
beyond this with a slightly different twist. I (and my girlfriend) have
tried both Bonine and Merazine, finding the latter to be superior.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 94 11:12:04 -0500
From: Donald Steele <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ginger <was Re: Dramamine>
Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Delphi ([log in to unmask] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Tabby: We need more of your kind! Actual documentation and analysis instead
of anecdotes. Of course, I should have known after seeing the *USC*.
Good work. Don Steele, M.D. (alas, UCLA)
***********************************************************************
Feeeesh NOTE: There's out Dr. Donald Steele whom Chuck Shipley cited in
his post, without THIS follow-up above. :-)
***********************************************************************
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 17:24:45 GMT
From: [log in to unmask] (Cindy C)
Subject: Re: Dramamine
In article <[log in to unmask]>, Donald Steele
<[log in to unmask]>
writes:
|> This medication has stood the test of time (more than 40 years); <...>
|> anecdotes are cute about Ginger root...but, alas, no documentation.
|> Ever try Kui kui oil rubbed into the umbilicus?? Give it a shot!
I recently saw Dramamine II on the market. Claims to have a less drowsiness
formula. Has anyone tried it yet ?
cindy
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1994 11:56:40 -0400
From: [log in to unmask] (Bob Curtis)
Subject: Re: Dramamine
Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
[log in to unmask] (Cindy C) writes:
>I recently saw Dramamine II on the market. Claims to have a less
>drowsiness >formula. Has anyone tried it yet ?
>cindy
People have been "trying" it for 40 years. The active ingredient in
Dramamine II is meclizine, the same ingredient that's been in Bonine all
along.
--
BC
***********************************************************************
Feeesh NOTE: Soooooo, we're back a FULL CIRCLE from my original reply
to Dave DeBarger: Ginger doesn't work (for ME) <YMMV>; not the medical
docs said studies have shown it to have NO EFFECT.
Then I said Bonine is CONSISTENTLY effective (which I didn't mean
consistently effective FOR ME (though true), but EFFECTIVE CONSISTENTLY
for most people. English is a difficult language to state anything
unambiguously!
************************************************************************
This was only a small PART of what I saved (in one single file) on my
BHD in 1994. Of course, there have been several OTHER threads in
Sc*b*-L <g> on the Seasick cure thread too since that time. Some of
Some of the SAME INFO repeat themselves. Right, Doc Lance? :==)
The archives are a GREAT SOURCE for useful info!!
-- Bob.
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