You know, I find it difficult to defend HP on this issue too. I believe
it would be smarter to charge a premium for MPE itself, rather than the
hardware it runs on-- especially when the hardware is identical to that
which is sold for 9000s and Netservers for much less. HP made some
effort in this regard over the past two years, but the re-pricing
strategy has either stalled or been forgotten.

As Denys points out, the more these systems become alike, the more
ridiculous the higher pricing becomes. Economists will tell you that a
black market will almost certainly appear in a country that puts
excessive taxes or duties on goods that are otherwise accessible. On the
same principal, cheating on income taxes generally increases as a
country increases the rate. One should expect, then, that more folks
will choose to use "unofficial" peripherals on their 3000s as the gap in
pricing grows wider. Anyone at HP smell coffee?

John Painter
Computer Solutions, Inc.
http://www.internetcsi.com



Denys Beauchemin wrote:
>
> Yes, I am quite aware of the contractual position of HP and I certainly do not
> advocate that you do something that would negate that contract.  For test
> environments, or where there is no support from HP, I submit that getting
> devices from other sources, HP devices at that, is a way to keep the system up
> to date.  In a production environment, I would be more reluctant to swap out
> internal devices, especially if a fuss would be created with my support
> contract.
>
> However, there are many people buying non-HP memory for their systems.  There
> are also lots of people buying non-HP disk drives, especially since HP no
> longer makes disk drives.  Further, HP does not make the DLT drives.
>
> I draw your attention to the following HP web site:
> http://businessservers.hp.com/products/datacenter/storage/3000peri.html
>
> The libraries listed there are HP libraries that connect to the HP 3000  and
> are standard, SCSI-2 command set libraries.  You can get equivalent ones from a
> number of manufacturers.  HP makes some very nice libraries, but they are not
> uniquely for the HP 3000.  HP sells these same libraries to anyone who has a
> SCSI connection in the computer.  The SCSI-2 command set is very much a
> standard. Actually, HP does not provide a driver for the robot, only for the
> drive.  The backup product must drive the robot.  /*plug: Ours is the only one
> that does. */plug.
>
> Let me add a few more thoughts here.  One of the main reasons the HP 3000 is a
> solid, reliable system is very much because people do not put all sorts of junk
> hardware into it.  HP, and rightly so, might refuse to support a machine that
> has been "modified" by someone else.  However, if I can get the exact same part
> from another supplier, should I not be able to have the HP CE install it and
> still have the system under support contract?  I would not have a problem being
> told that the new drive which I supplied to the CE to install is not under the
> system contract and that if it fails I have to supply a replacement myself.  In
> the current example, the HP-supplied HP DDS-3 drive is $3600, the non-HP
> supplied HP DDS-3 drive is $769.  I would buy 2, have a hot spare and still be
> way ahead of the game.
>
> I read the IODFAULT.PUB.SYS file religiously and buy accordingly.  I do the
> same thing for NT and guess what?  I have no problems there either.
>
> Finally, consider this: This situation is only going to get more interesting.
>  When IA-64 appears, what if you decide to replace the 1.5 GHz CPU with a 3.0
> GHz CPU that you bought from a reputable supplier other than HP?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Denys. . .
>
> Denys Beauchemin
> HICOMP
> (800) 323-8863  (281) 288-7438         Fax: (281) 355-6879
> denys at hicomp.com                             www.hicomp.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   John Painter [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent:   Friday, January 28, 2000 10:00 AM
> To:     [log in to unmask]
> Cc:     [log in to unmask]
> Subject:        Re: DDS-3 Drives
>
> Denys:
>
> You are quite right-- the A3542A, which is the "official" HP 3000
> internal add-on DDS3 drive, is very expensive compared to even HP DDS3
> drives sold for HP Netservers. You are also quite right that there are
> many other alternatives to the official drive that will work just fine.
> As far as I know, however, HP will only contractually support the more
> expensive "official" drive in the 3000. Of course, many of the
> alternatives come with their own warranty if you are willing to swap it
> out yourself. Like my Mother used to say, nobody ever said life is fair!
>
> John Painter
> Computer Solutions, Inc.
> http://www.internetcsi.com
>
> --------------------
>
> Denys Beauchemin wrote:
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > John wrote: That is incorrect. The A3542A 003 is a new field add-on DDS3
> drive.
> > List is
> > $3670.00. There is also an A3542AR, which is a remarketed version. Lose your
> HP
> > contacts and find a good Channel Partner... ;-)
> >
> > To which I respond:  "Wow those are high prices.!"
> > I went to www.dirtcheapdrives.com to have a look at some prices, here is what
> I
> > found.
> >
> > For internal devices:
> > An HP C1554AI DDS-3 drive for $769.
> > A DLT4000 for $1599.
> > An HP C5686A LVD/SCSI DDS-4 device for $1169
> > A DLT7000 for $3979
> > A DLT8000 for $4289
> > An HP C5648A DDS-3 6 cartridge autoloader for $1999
> >
> > I only listed HP and Quantum equipment  here. (Remember all DLTs are made by
> > Quantum.)
> >
> > If you are afraid of putting in such devices into the system, I went looking
> > for EXTERNAL devices.  The prices are a little higher.  The HP C5648A DDS-3 6
> > cartridge autoloader is $2089.
> >
> > Of course, you can buy any of the internal equipment and place it in a SCSI
> > enclosure.
> >
> > We have bought all sorts of stuff from them over the years.  Our HP 3000
> sports
> > one of their autoloaders and I also replaced the internal drive, which had
> > died, with a new HP one that I bought at DCD.  I swapped it out myself, no
> > biggie.
> >
> > Denys. . .
> >
> > Denys Beauchemin
> > HICOMP
> > (800) 323-8863  (281) 288-7438         Fax: (281) 355-6879
> > denys at hicomp.com                             www.hicomp.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:   John Painter [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent:   Friday, January 28, 2000 8:08 AM
> > To:     [log in to unmask]
> > Subject:        DDS-3 Drives
> >
> > In article <[log in to unmask]>,
> > [log in to unmask] says...
> > >
> > >Fellow listers,
> > >
> > >After a recent rash of problems, where our backup would not fit on our
> > available
> > >DDS-2 drives, I decided to try and see if I could 'upgrade' to DDS-3 and
> thus
> > >the extra tape capacity would resolve the need of someone driving in the
> > middle
> > >of the night to mount the additional tapes  (For a variety of reasons going
> to
> > >DLT is not an option at this point).
> > >
> > >After finding out that my sales rep. had retired and after being passed
> around
> > >and waiting for a call back for a couple of days, I finally talked to human
> > >being today and I was informed that the only DDS-3 drives available for my
> > >system (a 969/220) were of the 're-marketed' variety.
> > >
> > >Does this sound right?  The DDS-3 drive 'product' has already been
> > discontinued?
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >Paul Christidis
> > >
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> > That is incorrect. The A3542A 003 is a new field add-on DDS3 drive. List is
> > $3670.00. There is also an A3542AR, which is a remarketed version. Lose your
> HP
> > contacts and find a good Channel Partner... ;-)
> >
> > John Painter
> > Computer Solutions, Inc.
> > http://www.internetcsi.com