If I were to say anything at all and I guess I am by saying this... I would have said what Jonathan said (but not as well). Thank you for a thoughful response for which I can reply "Ditto".

stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Looney <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:52:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [UTCSTAFF] UTC Students Thumbs Down on Athletic Fee

At 11:23 AM 4/26/2004 -0400, Joe Dumas wrote:

>Aren't there some schools in the SoCon right now that don't have
>football teams?  I am thinking College of Charleston and UNC Greensboro
>as two examples, and what is the situation with Davidson and VMI?

Good question. You are correct that Charleston and UNC Greensboro do not
have football teams. Davidson plays Division III football I believe, and
VMI has left the Southern Conference. This left 9 teams in the conference
playing football (including ETSU) and a healthy 8-game conference schedule
for each school's football team. Davidson originally left the conference
(back in the late 1980's) due to dropping out of I-AA football. At some
point in time the Southern Conference felt it could expand to 12 teams for
basketball (with two, 6-team divisions), but would not need more than 9
football teams. Therefore, Davidson was allowed to return, and UNC
Greensboro and Charleston were brought into the conference knowing UP FRONT
that they didn't play football. When VMI left, Elon (with football) was
brought into the league, which maintained the 9-team football conference
with 8 conference games for each team to play.

When ETSU dropped football, the conference had no choice (in my opinion)
but to draw the line and maintain an acceptable number of schools for
football. That's why Coastal Carolina is being brought into the conference
(they play football, leaving the conference with nine football teams).
Since the Southern Conference has been the best I-AA football conference in
the country (due to strong programs like Georgia Southern, Appalachian
State, Furman, etc.) I can only assume that the conference feels it is in
its best interest to keep nine football teams. ETSU's strong tradition in
basketball and men's golf (I'm not that familiar with their other sports)
was not enough to allow the conference to set a dangerous precedent that
any of the 9 football schools could drop the program and remain a
conference member.

The things I've read say that Division I-AA football is a money loser
EVERYWHERE, even at schools that compete for national championships. If
that's correct, is the sentiment to drop football simply because it's not
"self-sufficient", or because the team has not won in 20 years? I doubt any
of our sports make money. Is there a formula that a certain winning
percentage allows a team to lose a certain amount of money?


>If any current conference members are being allowed to compete in other
>sports and not football, I don't see why UTC could or should be forced
>out assuming we phase out football.  But if we were, so be it ... I
>still think we could find another conference out there that would be
>right for a leaner UTC athletics program more in keeping with the
>University's mission.
>

For the sake of our other sports programs, this is where I'll disagree. I
don't want UTC to be a member of the Atlantic Sun Conference.  For those
interested, here are other Division I conferences, and comments on why or
why not the conference would be interested in UTC if we dropped football or
dropped to Division III and left the Southern Conference.

ATLANTIC COAST (Div I football)
SOUTHEASTERN   (Div I football)
BIG 12         (Div I football)
BIG EAST       (Div I football)
BIG TEN        (Div I football)
CONFERENCE USA (Div I football)
WESTERN ATHLETIC  (Div I football)
MOUNTAIN WEST   (Div I football)
PACIFIC-10      (Div I football)
ATLANTIC 10     (I-AA football, very strong basketball, not geographically
        suited for UTC, and they would have no interest in us anyway)
MISSOURI VALLEY (strong basketball conference, some of these schools play
football in the Div. I-AA "Gateway League, not geographically           suited
for UTC)
WEST COAST     (name alone rules us out)
COLONIAL       (good basketball conference for "mid-majors" like UTC, but
many    of these schools play football in the Atlantic 10. I doubt we could
afford the travel for these sports, as these schools are farther away   than
our current Southern Conference teams, and I don't know that this
conference would want us anyway)
HORIZON         (mid-west schools, not a geographic fit)
MID-AMERICAN    (mainly Ohio and Michigan schools, not a geographic fit)

SUN BELT        (Div I football)
BIG WEST        (not a geographic fit)
MID-CONTINENT   (not a geographic fit)
METRO ATLANTIC  (northeast schools, so not a geographic fit)
BIG SKY         (west coast schools, so not a geographic fit)
ATLANTIC SUN    (one of the conferences that would have us, since they are
losing their best athletic schools now. Includes some Georgia and
Tennessee schools, but this conference's instability would make joining         a
huge risk. I don't know how many sports this conference fields teams    in
other than basketball)
OHIO VALLEY     (Where I'd love to see us join. They didn't invite ETSU to
join without a football team, so why would they want us?)
IVY LEAGUE      UTC, the Harvard of the South????     ;-)
AMERICA EAST     (northeast schools)
PATRIOT          (not a geographic fit)
SOUTHLAND        (Texas schools)
BIG SOUTH        (I-AA football)
NORTHEAST        (name alone says it all)
SOUTHWESTERN     (name alone says it all)
MID-EASTERN      (not a geographic fit)
PIONEER   (appears to be only for football, schools from Tennessee,
California, Florida, Ohio, others...)
INDEPENDENTS (not a conference, but there are 4 independent Div. I
basketball teams, with a combined record last year of 27 wins, 72 losses.
This is even worse than being in a horrible conference)


My point is that you have to consider all of your programs when considering
which sports to keep/drop/add and what conferences you have the chance to
be in based on your entire athletic program. I think UTC's chances of
staying in the Southern Conference or joining the Ohio Valley Conference
are slim and none without football, and I don't see any attractive or
realistic chances of joining other conferences either. I think it's wishful
thinking to believe we can drop football without having a negative impact
on other sports.



Jonathan Looney
Director - Student Financial Aid
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga