On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:18:20 +0800, Bjorn Vang Jensen
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>I guess it was inevitable that recent events should become a topic here,
and
>I won't shy away :-) I will be stepping on toes of many of my best friends
>on this list, but I feel strongly enough abut this that I am prepared to
>take the risk.

< Ginormous snip >

>Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Everyone is entitled to
>demonstrate in the streets. Everyone is entitled to criticize their
>leaders. Everyone is entitled to all this, while knowing that they
>can do so free of fear of retribution from the state.
>
>I rejoice in the knowledge that soon, the people of Iraq will be
>entitled to all this, too, and I can't fathom why anybody wouldn't.

The fly in the present ointment is that this "war" which was the
result of Bush's (unsuccessful) demand for Iraq to disarm its nuclear
and chemical weapons (which the UN inspection team as well as other
countries not in the war coalition found unjustifiable for war) had
anything to do with the issues of democracy and freedom cited.

Moreover, IF those WERE the issues, it's issues for the Iraqi people to
fight in their own civil war.  None of Bush's bitness.


>Reflect on that for a little while, will you ?
>
>Bjorn

Reflected on, and LIVED over such issues for most of my LIFE.

Even for wars and killing by people within their OWN COUNTRY, minding
their OWN bitness, the results of violence is not as sweet as one
might be mislead into thinking,

Reflect on the US Civil War and those killed in it for awhile, and
how much "freedom" it accomplished for the slaves and blacks until
a couple hundred years later, accomplished by the NON-VIOLENT
movement over segregation.  Even TODAY, Yankees are not safe in
parts of the South where the Rebel flags are still a symbol of the
pre-civil-war sentiments of some Whites in the South,

Reflect on (for those who know much of ANYTHING about the history
of China) about Mao's Red Guards and Cultural Revolution for awhile,
and how much they affected its people.  It destroyed EVERYTHING
that was considered "culture" (art, music, literature) in a country
in which 99.9 percent couldn't care less about POLITICS, at the
expense of many lives. All if the taboo cultural items are back,
but it took half a century to get over the rhetoric of the original
Red China.  Crusty Russ is just re-building the Symphony Hall in
Shanghai NOW.  Go to your movie rental place and rent a copy of
the "Red Violin" -- a facinating tale of five segments, one of which
gave a very realistic portrayal of the terror and oppression of the
Cultural Revolution, in the name of "liberating" the people from
its evil past, under the former political regimes.

Reflect on the Vietnam war ...


In short, reflect on ALL of the recent wars and killing, including
those in the past century, and ask yourself what the killing has
accomplished and why they couldn't have been accomplished better
via non-violent means,

As Sir Winston Churchill so aptly said, "The only thing we learn
from history is that we do not learn from history."

I feel very bad for the innocent-killed, be them soldiers merely
following orders, or innocent civilians caught at the wrong place
at the wrong time, and soldiers on the same side killing each
other by mistake as some Brits had already been killed, not by the
Iraqis, but by 'Merkins in the Coalition,

Count me out as a supporter of THIS, or ANY OTHER, war.

-- Bob.