On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:05:42 +1000, David Strike
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Mike Wallace wrote - re Reef Fish's comments about
>...
>
>> (Big snip)
>> > And that's why ice diving is SO SAFE!  So un-extreme.  So EASY.
>> > So "no brainer".   MaY be NOW you get the point that you can always
>> > signal the TENDER who is tending the rope to PULL your ass in --
>
>Mate!  Having been a tender - and trained the bastards - I'm prepared to
>swear that they're the most important people I know!  You've got more
faith
>than I have in them when you say that you can, "*always* signal the TENDER
>... to PULL your ass in .. "  It depends on how well they're trained and
how
>well they 'read' the line! :-)


You're beginning to sound a bit like LEE!   :-)))

You had forgotten that I had said a THOUSAND times about SELF-RELIANCE
and SELF-sufficiency, and even said in THIS ice-diving thread that in
the worst case scenario of mis-signal, and I even cited YOUR CASE of
navy tall tale -- the recreational trained (and self-reliant) ice
diver, can always manage to find his way back to the hole because of
of the SHORT ROPE!!!  (100 feet).

Thus, EVERYTHING in the protocol of the ICE DIVING course (PADI or
other training agencies) ARE relevant.


What the divers do in Antartica are completely IRRELEVANT in the
context of my statements about recreational ice diving and its
protocols and safety.

But your long-rope, navy bastard, professional salvage and repair
experience AIN'T exactly to the recreational ICE DIVING protocols,
in the context discussed.  The fact that signals CAN be misinterpreted
WAS relevant, and I so addressed it, using your example.


As for the SAFETY in recreational ICE DIVING, according to the
protocol (not solo daringdoo by untrained ice divers) is a matter
that has to be taken into consideration in the RELATIVE but not
ABSOLUTE sense.   Your argument in the absolute sense is a patented
Lee Bell rhetoric.

NOTHING is absolute -- not even this piece of truism.   :-)))

ANY FOOL can find a way to kill himself, EVEN under the 91.7% agreed
upon safety protocols  (such as dive with a buddy <BWG>).

But it you take ALL the trained ICE divers, and put them against
ALL the open-water cert divers, ALL the cavers, ALL the wreck divers,
and ALL divers in OTHER special categories (Night, Deep, etec.etc.)

THEN you'll see the TENDER, SHORT ROPE protocol in ice dives give
a SAFER form of diving than ANY OTHER form of diving, and have
a history of LESS accident,  or fatality (not aware of any, but
there could well be) under the 100-ft rope with tender ICE-DIVING
protocol and scenario *I* was discussing -- the official line -- of
which you are so fond -- but apparently very selectively to suit
your argument.  :-)) A very, very <BG> to you.

This IS a (rare) case where a COURSE, and an EXPERIENCE under the
protocol of the course -- IS IMPORTANT to the proper understanding
of what that form of diving is all about -- completely unique and
distinct from ALL other forms of diving!

You would have been backing up EVERYTHING I said had you had ANY
course or training in recreational dive diving -- even if that course
were taught by Aussies in a frozen pool!   :0)

>
> If you're prepared to trust your life and well-being to a bloke whose
only
>qualities are the ability to hang on to the end of a piece of string,

Stop your mouth dance, Lee!   :-)   I NEVER trust my life to any bloke.
I am self-reliant!

>then give up diving!  Neither the diver, nor the tender, should recognise
any
>dive as safe - or easy!

ALL in the RELATIVE sense, not to be separated from SELF-RELIANCE
and SELF-RESPONSIBILITY which preceed all the rest!


>And unless they know what they're doing - and how
>to "read" that line - then they're no use to the diver:  and may not be
able
>to "pull your ass in "  when you really need them to do so! :-)

THey serve the analogous role of YOUR BUDDY -- which you so fervently
preached about.   I didn't even mention -- of course the protocol
in icedivers call for diving with a BUDDY TOO!   So, you have a BUDDY,
TWO tenders, and TWO short ropes.

And you STILL have your self-reliance and self-responsibility, unlike
the idjits.

That's right, Strike.   If you don't understand and can properly place
the importance of all of that in your frame of mind on SAFETY, then
you should give up diving, and give up PREACHING about the importance
of a BUDDY.   :-))

So THERE!   Harrumph!

ElPezNeuvo.