On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:33:44 -0500, Michael Levy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> . On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:04:16 -0500 Reef Fish wrote:
>
>> Ha! Now it's YOUR turn to get it straightened out with Michael Levy
>> whether "in the pool" IS REQUIRED.  Michael wrote, to Mark Goldsmith,
>> on his "faulty memory recollection" of doing it in the pool,
>
>To be precise my point was it is also a requirement in open water.
>
>> ML> Both Instructors violated standards.... it is a required skill
>> ML> in open water, both divers to be wearing full scuba gear for the
>> ML> local environment. The shop should be informed, in fact PADI
>> ML> should be informed..
>>
>> While that statement leaves it ambiguous whether BOTH pool AND "in
>> open water" are required, it doesn't seem to make any sense of
>
>Not when my comments were only dealing with Mark's statement that it was
>not done in open water.

That's why I said it was "ambiguous" -- it could be EITHER way,
without alleging you of having made a faulty statement.



>> REQUIRING a towing in a pool -- since there are certifying environments
>> where all "in water" skills are done WITHOUT a pool -- I am pretty sure
>> of THIS (Cozumel, e.g.), even though there are plenty of pools in
>> hotels in Cozumel, for tourists to bath and sun.  :-)
>
>PADI open water certification format requires skills to be done in the
>pool first (confined water really, can also be from shore of lake or
>ocean too) though not all confined skills are repeated in open water
>(i.e. swim u/w on scuba with mask off, etc:).
>
>I'm not going to get into the definition of confined water here. :-)

But that was precisely my POINT of questioning the REQUIREMENT of
doing it in a POOL.

A POOL is a confined water.

A CONFINED WATER is not necessarily a pool.


>Pool is used as the lay persons description but as you touched on here
>it can be elsewhere too.

Well, that's why PADI uses the word "confined water" environment
isn't it?  <I've met too many sharks, and since that subject has
already been brought up -- the actual use of TERMS is important <G>)

There are many POOLS in a pool-hall where pool sharks (as opposed
to regular land sharks) frequent.  Now if PADI says ... "pool",
then I could very well see the REQUIREMENT satisfied by having
that skill performed at the pool hall.  :-))


>Hopefully things are clearer on at least this requirement. ;-)

Hope you also see the importance of understanding that it's not a
"POOL" requirement at all, since I have observed too many PADI OW
certs done in Cozumel that were NOT in a pool.

But having all THAT cleared, it still appears to be that the tired-
diver towing in "confined water" is a rather unnecesary and
redundant requirement if the diver is expected to be able to perform
the skill in OPEN WATER where it's most like where that skill will
be required.

To put the point LOGICALLY,

It is inconceivable to me that a diver who can tow a diver in open
water will fail to do so in "confined water".

OTOH, as you so aptly pointed out (or implied) that a diver able to
do a tired-diver tow in a POOL may not be able to do in an open
water environment which is likely to have much more opportunity for
stress than in a pool, or "confined water".

-- Bob.

-- Bob.