> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:05:55 -0500, Mike Wallace <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >On 17 Sep 2003 at 12:15, Reef Fish wrote:
> >
> >
> M> >your body will have to heat up the cold water that entered the suit,
> M> >but eventually you will stabilize.
> >>
> >> Errrr ... you are not gonna heat up any 'ice water' if the suit
> >> leaked. :-)) You climb out of that damned hole (no more than
> >> 100 ft away) right away to keep from getting hypothermia! :-))
> >
> >Not true Kemosabe.
>
> Heehee~ eeet's true Tonto!
No.....no it's not.
>
> Strike was right in THIS case -- that a COURSE in ice-diving would
> certainly help those who ain't done it to get properly ORIENTED as
> to what it's all about.
Like that one course and two or three ice dives you did WAY back when? Don't
disagree that a course is not a bad thing to do to begin the learning process.
The learning should not end with the course though.
>
> For starters, ice-diving IS the most EXTREME cold-water diving!!
Your opinion maybe. I disagree.
>
> let me explain it to Mika first, because he is a 'ferner who is still
> making slips about the English language -- and he did in this case.
Ok 'splain it to him, although I think it'll be wasted. He has a pretty good
grasp of it already. Not too sure about you though.
>
> See, Mika -- the subject is COLD vs WARM. What distinguishes COLD
> from warm or how measures COLD is temperature -- and what is the
> most EXTREME TEMPERATURE of the water when one DIVES?
Yep cold and warm are certainly parts of the subject.
>
> Water that's not frozen, under ICE, of course!
>
> Thus, the word "extreme" can only be taken in that sense, given the
> ambiguity of the English language. It has NOTHING to do with how
> long one stays in the water, or, ... , as Mika mistakenly taken
> it to mean "extreme diving" (with the keyword "cold-water") removed.
>
>
> Okay, now that we've get past that first hurdle, the next step is to
> realize that ICE DIVING is different from ALL other forms of diving
> you and Mika know -- expecially in recreational ice-diving. The
> protocol calls for a TENDER for YOU, and you alone, at all times
> (less than 100 feet away -- you all missed that part didn't you?).
You don't have enough knowledge about my diving to make that statement. Ice
diving is different in some aspects to the majority of my diving, but much of
the overhead enviroment training that I have can apply to ice diving as well.
In fact it works quite well for me when I do it.
>
> If ANYTHING goes wrong, or seem to go wrong, you JERK (okay, you signal
> in a proper way) to let the tender know to PULL you out of there!
That may be the way you learned to do it and did it the couple times you did
your ice dives. I choose to use a different method, safer in my opinion than
yours.
>
> Now back to Mika's discussion (and yours) about warming up the water
> in the drysuit, and Mika's case talking about the property of the
> drysuit relative to hole-puncture.
>
> It's ALL immaterial -- in ICE diving, because you're ALWAYS within a
> pull and short distance from the ICE HOLE, tethered to a PERSON
> whose sole purpose/attention is to TEND to you when needed.
It's not immaterial. I'm not always within 100 feet of the hole, and I'm not
depending on some other attentive and alert person to understand an ambigous
signal on a line to pull my ass out of the fire(ice). Of course you are welcome
to dive as you choose, should you ever decide to ice dive again. I'd suggest a
refresher course though.
>
> Thus, it's a "no brainer" if a drysuit leaks of floods in an ICE
> dive. You get the hell out of there. THAT's what I meant, and any
> ice-diver would easily relate to it and understand what's meant.
Hehehehe.......Ok Kemosabe.
>
>
> For you and Mika, and the rest of the cavers, you DON'T have the
> luxury of a TENDER less than 100 feet away to pull you out of trouble
> anytime you're in trouble. You are not in as EXTREME a cold water
> environment as in an ICE diver (temperature wise), so if you drysuit
> leaks or floods, you have to do the best you can under those
> circumstances, which are ENTIRELY different from the environment
> and circumstances during an ICE DIVER.
Again you base your assumption of what all ice divers do based on an old and
very limited experience of yours. Not a valid assumption.
>
>
> Sabe now, Tonto? :-))
Yep, Sabe that you were a strictly recreational ice diver and never continued
the learning process.
>
> Now you can re-read what I wrote, in the context I explained:
>
> >> Errrr ... you are not gonna heat up any 'ice water' if the suit
> >> leaked. :-)) You climb out of that damned hole (no more than
> >> 100 ft away) right away to keep from getting hypothermia! :-))
>
>
> See the 100 ft mention?
>
> Again, "you are not gonna heat up an 'ice water'" is not meant to
> say the physical impossibility of warming up the ice water to a safe
> temperature -- a point that is at least debatable.
Your body can and will heat up water that enters a flooded dry suit. The only
point debatable might be the "safe temperature" portion.
It's meant that
> there is NO NEED for an icediver to count on heating up the water
> inside a leaked or flooded drysuit. Unless s/he is a DF (Mika is
> beginning to pick up where Carl left off :-)), s/he gets the hell
> out of the ice hole before there is the remotest chance of getting
> hypothemia!
Agree that it's nice to not need to heat it up, but it's also a good thing to
know that you can should you have to do so.
>
>
> End of mini-ice-diving lesson.
BTW, a chain saw is not the only method for cutting a hole in the ice for
diving. You can use an ice drill and another tool to quickly cut a hole in ice
that's not more than a couple feet thick. I'll let you do the research on the
method should you think it's worth knowing.
Mike
>
> ElPezNeuvo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you are not transferring the water, it will certainly heat
> >up. I have completely flooded my suit, in 50f water by completely tearing
> a wrist
> >seal. I used some line from my reel to 'tie' off the trilam at the wrist
> so I would
> >continue to flow water in and out. After a few minutes I had the water
> in the
> >suit warm enough to be comfortable.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Mike Wallace
> >Huntsville, Alabama
__
Mike Wallace
34 47.534
086 34.132
|
