On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 03:10:33 -0400, Michael Doelle
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Feesh wrote:
>
>>Clearly wrong.  Refresh your SAC rate and how it translates to
>length of dives at various depths.  Not many people (beginner
>or not) do 60 minute dives only because not many dive operations
>conduct 60 minute dives.<
>
>Huhh? Any operator around here lets us do 60 minute plus dives. They dump
>us in first, that's all.

As I said to Lee, from which this original thread continued and
branched, "Florida is NOT the center of the universe" by which
SCUBA activities are, or should be, judged.

It is a rare exception in all the locations I've dived, excepting
on liveaboards, that operators conduct, or allow, 60-minute-plus
dives.  That includes hundreds of operators in the Caribbean, the
Bahamas, and the Pacific.

>
>>Being able to ascend slowly enough is NOT a matter of "sense", but
>a matter of "skill".  You grossly overestimated the diving skills of
>recreational divers.<
>
>I've never done that yet.

But you HAVE just now -- "overestimated the diving skills of
recreational divers".  That is understandable since you DON'T dive
with a group, and you DON'T observe how FEW "typical"/"average"
recreational divers are CAPABLE of making controlled, slow ascents.

>>You seem to forget we were talking about Molasses Reef.  What current?<
>
>You have not been there very often, it seems.

That's obvious.  Two dives.  That was enough to convince me never to
return there.  :-)  In THOSE dives, on which the behavior of the DM
is being discussed, there was absolutely NO CURRENT and anyone (even
DM on the boat) can tell.


>>Florida Keys are the ONLY locations I've dived where DMs don't get wet.<
>
>OK, that's your experience,  but there are lots of places where they don't.

In the US, where else besides Florida and Southern Cal?

>And lots of people dive without a commercial operation at all. All of my
>european dives are done that way. We get there, we dive. Very simple.

Yeah, and some people dive on their own boats too.

EUROPE, in spite of its size, is NOT the mecca, or the center of the
universe, of recreational diving either.  ;-)  You're speaking of
completely ATYPICAL experience for RECREATIONAL scuba operations
throughout the rest of the world where MOST recreational divers
travel to DIVE.

Recreational divers often make statements like, "I wanna dive in
XXX before I die", or "I really like to dive in XXX one of these
days."   We ALL know what those "XXX"s are.  I've never heard
anyone using "Europe" in "XXX".  :-)

>
>>  In unfamiliar locations/sites, a DM led dive ranges from a "must" to a
>"desirable to show where things are".<
>
>Uhh ... no.

Then we disagree.  IMO, what I said is definitely true for first-time
(or infrequent) visitors to sites in Cozumel (or other Caribbean
locations), Palau (or other Micronesia locations), and any of the
islands I recently dived in the French Polynesia.  For that matter,
I'll stand by what I said for ANY PLACE in the world.
>
>>I dive with the same buddy (my wife) in more dives than most divers
>have dives in their entire life, including possibly you. <
>
>Number of dives does not translate directly into competence.

Competence was NOT the issue, though we are quite competent to dive
the way YOU PREFER to dive:

Mika> I prefer to bring my own dive partners, since I know evreything
Mika> about their gear and qualification, while I usually know nothing
Mike> about the DM

I was using my wife as an EXAMPLE in that context, to illustrate what
I said about DMs (as Guides) is true even in the cases where I DO
know everything about my wife's gears and qualification.


>>Do you prefer to fumble along with your favorite buddy WITHOUT Strike as
>your Guide?<
>
>While I would gladly dive with Mother Strike at Shelley, I doubt that I
>would "fumble around" without him.

To each his own.

>I almost never dive with a DM. Anywhere.

That's quite obvious from everything you said about DMs.

How do you know so much about what you DIDN'T miss not diving with
a "Dive Guide" in unfamiliar sites/locations when you "almost never
dive with a DM"?

That's almost like those talking about/against diving experiences
below 130 fsw when they've never done it.  ;-)

>Maybe that's the difference.
>
>michael

That is indeed the difference.  If you ain't tried it (almost never),
while nearly all other divers do (regularly), perhaps you DID miss
a lot that you simply weren't aware because of your diving habit.

C'est la difference.

-- Bob.