Reef Fish wrote:

>
> Ken, kudos to you for having provoked an impromptu Sermon that is much
> needed by the majority of 'Merkins and folks like yourself, who are
> ignorant, smug, and unaware of their intellectual bankrupcy.
>
> If your stomach is too weak to face the TRUTH, skip the rest of this post
> now.  To the rest of you, you get what you paid for.  :-))
>
>
>
> Every quotable quote or something clever that has ever been said
> in the history of mankind had been at one time or another been
> correctly, or incorrectly, been attributed to Mark Twain.

Agreed- I was in error due to this affliction as you mention :)

>
> In this case, Ken correctly corrected himself after Mika's prompt.
> But whether Ken or Mika was correct in the name-dropping is entirely
> irrelevant and impertinent to the point of discussion between Strike
> and myself.
>
> The FLIES in that ointment (or pile of shit) of paraphrasing Einstein
> out of CONEXT of the present discussion in citing "can look it up when
> the need arises" are:
>
> 1.  Even if you knew the Descartes in question was Rene Descartes,
>     and not Oscar Descartes or Merdes Descartes (I just made the
>     latter two up at the 'fly' -- to be OT with fly on the shit
>     pile) you would not have KNOWN or be able to relate in any
>     intellecutual or intelligent discourse the SUBSTANCE for which
>     Rene D was known -- which is not committing anything to memory
>     at all, but very GENERAL knowledge of the IDEAS.
>
But Ideas are many and varied and who of us it to pick just one who may
reflect our own views or what we may attach ourselves to from their
words or ideas,
to reflect on who Descartes- one only needs the internet to find him -
after a short trip to Mr Webster- those that cant use the Einstein
method might try - http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/d/descarte.htm

> 2.  While Rene Descartes is probably better known as a philosopher,
>     not only for the quote attributed to him:
>
>     I think, therefore I am. --Rene Descartes
>
Oh- I thought that quote was from the Moody Blues - They certainly used
it and used to to convey Descartes feelings I am sure - enhancing
another generation to the words - without knowledge of the person- which
is OK as long as the words and meaning are intact,

>     one would have to be educated much DEEPER (in comprehension) that
>     is not something that requires (or can be) committed to memory
>     in the sense of 'rote memory', or needs to be, or can be
>     "looked up" on the fly.

I dont like rote memory and sure that in your tenure- you never ever
ever required it of your students. It is a worthless exercise.

>
> 3.  Rene Descartes is better known to some other educated folks as
>     the old geek, a pure mathematician, who "invented" the field of
>     Analytic Geometry and a set of coordinates named after him, after
>     his mathematical contributions to algebra, geometry.
>
That can be found on the first page of the internet search - but it has
no current value- as it is not where it came from , but what it can do
and what it means that is important to most of us.
We are not sending awards and only need the data to use in our lives .


> See my comment above.   Ole Albert, as my own mentor, was diagnosed
> by some of their early-school teachers as lacking in the IQ department
> and unfit for college or mathematics.  So they became respectively, a
> world-famous Physicist and a world-famous Statistician, using the
> advanced mathematics beyond the Ph.D. level in their fields.  :-))
>
> Much of Albert's theory was attributed (by those in the know as having
> been stolen from his wife, a better Physicist but a lesser showman
> than Albert!  Albert just took credit for them and sent her to the
> kitchen where wimmin belong in those days.  :-)  Also few people know
> Einsteins position and philosophy on WAR, GOD, RELIGION, and a few
> other philosophy areas!

Great starting point to check should one be interested in the history as
opposed to the results..

>
> "Look it up as needed".  Sheeesh!  It'll take several YEARS to look
> them up, and then you still would have to have enough brain cells to
> COMPREHEND what you looked up!
>
Oh- be careful what you say- looking it up again is often the drudgery
of the day when so many cells are filled with other information- but
comprehension ( at least here) is not an issue.

> I "looked up" Einstein's theories of General and Special Relativity
> and still remember the key mathematical role of the Laurenz transform,
> long before I finished HIGH SCHOOL.  I didn't understand it all then,
> but knew more about Albert's theory than most folks ever knew in
> their life times.
>
That is great for you Bob- I know a few kids that were very similar in
that respect- but it was not life supporting information and made no
impact on their final success or failure as humans.

> I never did actually finish High School (the British metriculation style)
> -- entered college in the USA two years before metriculation and found
> myself to have already done most of the English, Math, Physics, and
> Chemistry stuff that were not taught until the Sophomore of Junior
> years in college.  So I had a good time and learned practically
> nothing in my 4-years of college, which was the only college in the
> USA my folks could have afforded sending me at the time -- 4 years
> of tuition, room-and-board total $1320 USD, which had to be deposited
> at the US Counsulate, together with a one-way return boat ticket fare
> of $420 before I could be admitted to the USA.   :-))

Bob, seriously - no disrespect as I have always admired what you have
done from what I have seen on this forum and from what you have said
above- I just dont like to  be put into a category that you choose- when
you know little of me.
=
>
> Better rants are yet to come.  ;-))
>
>
> That's what is FAILING in the educational systems in the US of A.
> People are memorizing useless facts such as names and dates, but fail
> to know, comprehend, or relate to ANYTHING beyond those worthless
> "memorization of useless facts"!
>
> The fact you donno and duncare who Descartes is or what the substance
> behind that man's contribution to society and to the world is the
> supreme example of:  IGNORANCE, ARROGANCE of an intellectually
> IMPROVERISHED man, who can only relate "great success in real life"
> to MONEY and POPULARITY -- which brings us all the way around to
> the theme and substance of what I discussed with Strike on the
> subject of "money" and "wealth".
'
Your choice of words- but has nothing to do with Money and Popularity-
and hardly intellectually impoverished-
We choose our methods to be and communicate and live within our world
and should we chose to read the Exorcist or Socrates- doth not diminish
what we may have inside or what we know or are  capable of...
And while you may thing the intellectual levels of others should be up
to a bar that you approve of - what is the purpose of that and to what
end shall that bar be lowered or raised-
"some see things as they and ask Why- while others dream things that
never were and say Why Not" PF - TK 1968
How so then should you judge those that you do not know ...

> To put it bluntly,
>
> A rich and famous jock, rock star, bitness creature, politician,
> CEO, President, etc., etc. can be INTELLECTUALLY bankrupt.
>
> An unwealthy person, in whatever field of endeavour can be
> infinitely richer, INTELLECTUALLY, and happier and more contented,
> than many of his wealthy counterpart.

True or visa versa -

> I love this country for many things it has to offer -- in EDUCATION,
> in OPPORTUNITY, in every respect in which one can have the FREE
> CHOICE to GROW (or to whine about being "culturally biased" agaisnt,
> or the rest of the silly whinings about why one should pass an
> 8th grade exam in order to graduate from High School???), and I have
> benefitted much from these OPPORTUNITIES in the USA which I would
> NOT have been able to get had I not been in the USA!  This is the
> preface to saying why I am not biting the hand that fed me, but
> rather clubbing the IGNANT folks who failed to recognize the
> opportunities right under their noses, and choose to wallow in
> self-grandiose, smugness, and arrogance!  No Hihi or hihi about
> this.

Great Words and right on the mark-

> On the other side of the coin, I loathe the TREE-STUMPS who guised
> themselves as "students" in education in the USA, who are supremely
> IGNORANT in fields of science, mathmetics, literature, philosophy,
> etc. compared to their counterparts of poor folks even in Third
> World countries, and who are nevertheless supremely smug about their
> self-perceived superiority over others who are far superior to them.

Bob, it, as you know, it part of the system that has put its face in our
schools and social education for the last 20-40 years. You Know this as
well being from this and the previous generation ( students and yourself)
But in this forum - there is little premise of superiority- lest we
occasionally and rarely see the face of ones that suggest they have all
the answers to all of our questions of the universe, the earth and the
seas.

an appropriate line :
" May it not perhaps be the case that these very things which I am
supposing to be nothing, because they are unknown to me, are in reality
identical with the 'I' of which I am aware? "(Meditation 2, II 18)Descartes

> That pretty much sums up the ills of the Merkin Society.
> It's something that is INCURABLE by the abundance of MONEY.

Ah but a suggestion but not a reality ....

by the way- I learned more about Descartes today than I have ever heard
in my Humanities courses- and from the - Look it up - method at that- :)
I will read more -
Ken