Lee wrote:

> I and other non professionals are not the same as a working DM or
> instructor.  I'm under no obligation to them one way or the other.

Bad, bad mistake in assumptions!

> > PADI
> > " Open water training dives for certification requirements are not to be
> > conducted in Caves, caverns, under ice or in any situation where direct
> > vertical access to the surface is not possible.  This requirement does
not
> > apply to Ice, Cavern or Wreck Diving Specialty courses, or to special
> > orientation dives after a diver has been certified."
>
> Your interpretation is different from mine.  I read "This requirement does
> not apply to . . . special orientation dives . . . as specifically
allowing
> it.  I think pretty much everyone else will too.

It is fortunate then that the interpretation of those standards are left in
the hands of those of us who have actually spent a significant amount of
time (and money!) on learning how to read, interpret and apply them. It is
fortunate also that we are taught to use and cross-reference the ENTIRE
Instructor manual, a priviledge I am using at this moment, to quote the
following from the section on Envronmental Orientation Dives:

"EOD is the optional open-water experience for the PADI Scuba Review
program. It is an underwater guided tour designed to 1) re-introduce divers
to the open-water environment after an extended period of diving inactivity
and/or 2) orient divers to unfamiliar aquatic conditions.

To you it may not be obvious, but I assure you that a professional intent on
following standards will not miss the TWO references to "open water" in that
text.

SECONDLY, and again your lack of pro status excuses you, the reference to
"open water training dives" in the text Strike quoted carries a different
meaning to a pro than to a mere mortal such as yourself ;-) You obviously
automatically infer that "open water training dives" must mean "the dives
performed in pursuit of Open Water Diver certification". Pros refer to ANY
non-pool dive in ANY course as an "open water dive".

In other words, the paragaph Strike quoted is part of the GENERAL standards
that apply to any course, not part of the COURSE-SPECIFIC standards for the
Open-Water Diver course. Hence the need to state that obviously training
dives for Wreck, Cave or Cavern open water dives can be conducted in
overhead environments (duh!)

> We're not talking about standards for certified divers, we're talking
about
> standards for professionals working in the agency's name.

And you seem to be offended that there is no standard that requires them to
think on behalf of the certified diver, yet you champion the diver's
individual responsibility every chance you get. My head is spinning :-)

Bjorn