Well I've sat back in my easy chair reading all my responses to my comments
re: the third party vendors.  To a large extent I agree with most of said
comments.  With that in mind,  I have personally spoken to all my third
party vendors (18 to be exact) and each one of them from Adager to ROC
software have indicated in writing that so long as there is one HP3000 out
there they will continue to support the platform.  The next question is
should I really believe these folks.  I believed in HP for 25 years and now
look.  HP repeatedly stated year after year that the 3000 was safe from
extinction and HP would continue to fund the CSY.  ASK also said the same
thing before they sold MANMAN to CA.  Oracle was another story all together
they never said one way or the other if they were in it for the long haul.
But then one fine day out of the blue I received a letter in the mail from
Oracle and the rest was history.  So who do you believe, who do you trust,
who do you want to go to bed with (not literally).  I know I ask more
questions than answers but the bottom line is not matter what the vendors
say or do its really a crap shoot.

Lets look at HP for example.  Didn't they say that the 987 was off
support??? If you go to hp.com the official statement says that indeed it is
obsolete.  A recent call the response center and some un-named friends at HP
- Cupertino said otherwise.  If you e-mail [log in to unmask] guess what????
You can get an extension of support for this box on a case by case basis.
HP wants to keep this sort of quiet... sorry HP...the cat is out of the bag.


Needless to say I submit to you that this was yet just a marketing ploy to
drum up some more HP3000 business before Winnie (Winston Prather) decided to
obsolete all HP3000s.  Now lets talk about the 2006 deadline.  Is this yet
another HP ploy???  My sources have indicated that 2006 is not really 2006
but rather much later than that (if ever).  It seems that the IA-64 chip
isn't selling that well after all forcing hp to stick with PA_RISC chips,
Carly is saying that growth will be in the single digits next year (this
weeks' Computer World).  And you got it more HP layoffs are probably in the
horizon.  Does this sound like a company that wants to abandon an entire
community.  Hmmmmmm....

Oh and by the way, we still are very heavy users of the Oracle Transparent
Gateway in production even though there is no support for this product but
then again there is no $$$ for migrating this to MBFOSTER either.  The
solution??? we support this product ourselves.

Zelik

****************************************************************************
****************
The opinions expressed in this email are mine, and do not reflect those of
my employer or any other individual or organization.
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*****************

-----Original Message-----
From: John Lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 4:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A No for SSConfig


I have to ask a question here...HP has guaranteed the HP 3000 platform will
be around through 2006.  Given the demand for and supply of quality
third-party vendors, I think we can safely assume that you can run your HP
3000 through 2008? 2010?  I'm not so sure it won't outlast several others.
How many other platforms are we all confident will be around that long?
Which ones?  And which applications are we CERTAIN will still be around?
This world we all work in changes awfully fast.  Or, as Dorothy put it to
Toto, "people come and go so quickly around here" (or something to that
effect).

John Lee



At 12:53 PM 10/24/02 -0700, Paul Meyerhofer wrote:
>--- Russ Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >  If you can't find a
>> > replacement for software on your HP3000, maybe you need to re-evaluate
>> > your needs.
>>
>> And how is revisiting an analysis of what the company does and needs,
going
>> to help anyone see that differently?  If we determine that the HP3000
>> running application suite X is the best solution for our business needs,
the
>> only way that will change is if we look again and say "oh but that
option is
>> no longer available".  It may not be available, but it is *still* the
best
>> option.  Can we find a replacement?  Yes.  Is it a better option?  No,
>> otherwise we would have already chosen it instead.  When the answer is
still
>> going to be a custom application running on a single centralized server
with
>> a tightly integrated DBMS, now we have to look for another system
capable of
>> handling it and then we're looking at other vendors because HP is making
us
>> leave their version of that answer.
>
>I was speaking in general terms.  If you're talking about a 3rd party
package
>that is not a major part of how your company does business, then
re-evaluating
>your needs is reasonable (eg: maybe e-mailing that document instead of
printing
>it will work).  As the scope increases, then re-evaluation becomes less and
>less reasonable.
>
>> >  Am I happy that HP has decided this?  Of course
>> > not.  But none of us should have been surprised by this.  Now each of
>> > us have to make the decision to continue on a risky path or move onto a
>> > more stable path.
>>
>> Raise your hand if you think HPUX/Oracle or WINTEL/SQL systems are going
to
>> be more "stable" than MPE/Image.
>
>Of course not.  However, I *do* consider moving to a platform that a
company
>still stands behind as being a more stable path (even if the platform
itself is
>less stable than the HP3000).  [And this is the reason I will not recommend
>moving to an HP9000 - because I don't believe HP will not decide to pull
the
>plug on that.]  Which brings us back to the purpose of OpenMPE - to try to
>bring more stability to the HP3000 after HP dumps it.
>
>Allow me to tell you where our company is coming from...  We need to
replace
>our ERP package (MANMAN) with something more modern and with more
capabilities.
> First, ASK sells it to Computer Associates who just wanted it for the
money
>(imagine that).  They add next to nothing to the product.  Oracle decides
to
>stop supporting the HP3000.  HP then announces they're discontinuing the
>HP3000.  CA then sells MANMAN to SSA - who recently decided there will be
no
>more new releases.  For me, the writing on the wall has slowly become
easier to
>read.  We are forced to go to a platform that is still being supported and
to a
>database that will not be as stable as Image.  Am I happy with the events?
>Heck no.  My life will become more complicated and more stressful (if
that's
>possible).  That great feeling of the past 15 years of watching the
non-HP3000
>world struggle is coming to an end for me...
>
>> > Criticizing
>> > another person's approach to software accomplishes nothing.
>>
>> I disagree.  If the criticism is constructive it may *teach* a person
>> something.  :)
>
>I agree (and smiley noted).  I was referring to Cecile Chi's comment: "Mr.
>Schwartzman does not seem to be living in the real world."  He's just
living in
>a different world - as is each of us.
>
>Paul Meyerhofer
>Wilson Greatbatch Technologies
>
>> Rs~
>>
>> Russ Smith
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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