Brian writes

>Unfortunately the emulator will be loading from existing CSLT and
>SubSys tapes and they have all this stuff included in the MPE OS on the
>tape.  In other words, you don't get to pick and chose which bits of MPE
>you get and which you leave behind.  The emulator is emulating an hp3000
>hardware system, not the software system.

...Referring again to the PA-RISC hardware emulator, which will, once again,
let you stay locked into (nearly) immutable MPE/iX 6.0 forever (but you'll
still be able to use your CSLT?  does that mean DDS-forever rah rah?).

I haven't seen any realistic evidence of that being economically viable, but
then I don't see the huge MPE users posting messages here saying they'll buy
into several copies of a small-market hardware emulator (HP, Compaq, large
retail chains, MANMAN folks, are you there? ;-) which they'll let small
users copy cheap?

I'm contrarily advocating an OpenSource simulator, whose open source can be
rewritten, expanded, contracted, improved forever, by anyone interested.

Tracy (warned you I'm a simpleton!) Pierce






> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Duncombe [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 8:38 AM
> To: Tracy Pierce
> Subject: Re: MPE Licensing
>
>
> At 08:09 AM 12/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> >the 3rd party stuff was listed by Jeff Vance as being
> >
> >
> >   - MKS for their POSIX shell and Utilities,
> >   - Mentat for their MPS Streams code needed for pipes and some
> >     other IPC functionality. MPS code is used by: 12H Raid Mgr,
> >     XP Raid Mgr, POSIX pipes [pipe(), HPPIPE()], Predictive, CSTM,
> >     and Patch/iX.
> >   - MB Foster for their 32 bit ODBC driver.
> >
> >which yes, includes some important stuff.
> >
> >POSIX shell and Utilities: Linux.
> >pipes, IPC: Linux.
> >12H Raid Mgr, XP Raid Mgr: integrated to MPE, or added on?
> (treat the disk
> >as disk; raid is a way to make disk more reliable, and it's
> available for
> >Linux systems.)
> >Predictive?  Who's going to support Predictive?  sell the pieces with
> >Predictive ;-)
> >Patch/iX?  there ARE non-MPE OS update procedures out there.
> >ok, I'm skipping CSTM.
> >
> >isn't all this stuff (except CSTM and Predictive) already
> all there in
> >Linux?
>
> Yes!  Unfortunately the emulator will be loading from
> existing CSLT and
> SubSys tapes and they have all this stuff included in the MPE
> OS on the
> tape.  In other words, you don't get to pick and chose which
> bits of MPE
> you get and which you leave behind.  The emulator is
> emulating an hp3000
> hardware system, not the software system.
>
>
> >Tracy Pierce
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mark Klein [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 7:49 AM
> > > To: Tracy Pierce; [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: MPE Licensing
> > >
> > >
> > > On 13 Dec 2002 at 7:28, Tracy Pierce wrote:
> > >
> > > > re the 1st two, IF the emulator were software designed
> to run atop
> > > > linux, all ux stuff could be just left out of OpenMPE,
> and ux calls
> > > > could be as simply invoked as is MPE's HPCICOMMAND.
> Voila, no 3rd
> > > > party fees.
> > >
> > > That's an over simplication, because this stuff isn't
> just bolted on -
> > >  it is integral to MPE at this point. Further, one piece
> of the 3rd
> > > party code handles some of the inter process
> communication internal
> > > to the OS. Can't simply "leave it out".
> > >
> >MPE worked before integration of Posix was even a dream; my
> biggest hurdle
> >re that integration was always "Who's on top, Posix or MPE?" and the
> >answer's of course "Neither".  But why?  Absolutely necessary?
> >
> > > > Granted that's a huge IF, and quite contrary to the
> hardware emulation
> > > > touted by the OS experts here, but if MPE emulation amounted to
> > > > intrinsics written to run atop Linux, that OS's
> continuously improved
> > > > features would be pretty durn near.
> > >
> > > Gotta keep in mind again that there'e "emulation" and
> "simulation".
> > > What you are describing is simulation. There are many companies
> > > already out there today with MPE simulation tools. Since you state
> > > that you don't care about recompiling your application, the
> > > simulation is probably a better fit for you. There are those where
> > > that isn't possible, or at least cost justifiable where emulation
> > > works out better for them.
> >
> >If somebody has a comprehensive simulator, who where what
> and how much?  If
> >such a product exists, the only reason I'd have not to jump
> to it is the
> >fact that e3k hardware is now so dirt-cheap and getting
> cheaper on a nearly
> >daily basis.  As long as I can transfer licenses (which will
> be as long as
> >HP hasn't got hold of and destroyed the boxes to which those
> licenses are
> >attached), I can wait to use the simulator.
> >
> >I'm sure there are examples of sourceless object code out
> there, but these
> >are fires just waiting for nearby oxygen.  And again, cost
> justifiable?
> >Who's going to fund hardware emulation for an OS that's
> incapable of being
> >upgraded?
> >
> >Tracy
>
>
> Brian Duncombe  [log in to unmask]  http://www.triolet.com
> voice: 1-877-TRIOLET (874-6538) (905)632-2773 fax: (905) 632-8704
> "Inside every large program is a small one desperately trying
> to get out"
> C.A.R. Hoare
>
>