It may be a technicality (one more ...) but Alsace and PART OF Lorraine (the
North-East of it, to be precise), not ALL OF Lorraine, were shuttled back
and forth between France and Germany a few times between 1871 and 1945.

It may be a technicality for most of us, but it's certainly not one for the
people living  close to each other and having somehow different systems for,
say, social security, separation of church and state, education systems ...

Christian Lheureux
Responsable du Departement Systemes et Reseaux / Head of Systems and
Networks Department
APPIC R.H.
business partner hp invent
Tel : +33-1-69-80-97-22   /   Fax : +33-1-69-80-97-14 / e-mail :
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> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]De la
> part de Bill Brandt
> Envoye : jeudi 13 fevrier 2003 04:54
> A : [log in to unmask]
> Objet : Re: [HP3000-L] [OT] The morality of war
>
>
> Hi Wayne - I believe you are right on Alsace-Lorraine - the
> latest volley -
> when it went back to France - was lost in the 1870s -
> Franco-Prussian War.
> Not WW1 as was my assertion.
>
>  I went there years ago - it is by Strasbourg - very
> interesting place. You
> see predominantly German architecture - and 2 distinctly
> different peoples -
> lighter skin people of German ancestry and darker French -
> Mediterranean. Of
> course I am making generalizations. I don't know how many
> times the region
> has passed back & forth.
>
> In the 1930s conventional wisdom (British Labor Party) was
> that Hitler only
> wanted to unite the "German people" - of course there were
> people of German
> ancestry even in Russia - the Sudetenland - (part of Czech) -
> Austria - and
> who determines what is "self determination"? Some Mexicans
> like to believe
> that "Alta California" is really theirs by history - of
> course, the Spanish
> Conquistadors took what became Mexico from the Aztecs and
> Mayans - anyway as
> you can probably tell - I do like history - in spite of the
> way it is taught
> by most  teachers-
>
> To the issue at hand - I suppose it comes down to one's
> perception of what
> Saddam Hussein intends to do with all these nasty weapons he
> ostensibly
> doesn't have. I would argue that he hasn't developed them
> only to never use
> them eventually - but certainly realize there are those who
> disagree with
> me.
>
> Bill
>
>  Wayne Wrote:
> Alsace-Lorraine was French until the French lost the
> Franco-Prussian war.
> It then became part of Prussia/Germany.  If the Rhinelanders
> wanted to be
> part of Germany then they should have been allowed to do so and Hitler
> allowed them to have their wish.  Hence his early popularity.  In
> Alsace-Lorraine - are the people French or German or possibly
> a mix?  The UN
> supports a "right of self-determination".  The concept is
> good and could
> have been applied to the Rhineland (favoring Germany), Alsace-Lorraine
> (favoring France?), Kurds (NOT wanting to be part of Iraq),
> East Timorese,
> Tibetans, Northern Irish(stay in the UK), Southern
> Irish(Independence), etc,
> etc and more etc. throughout the world.
>
> The currently relevant point is of course, the Kurds.  I'd
> love to hear the
> Bush admin clarify it's position on the Kurds and their future.
>
> Wayne
>
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