HP3000-L Archives

January 2006, Week 3

HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Art Bahrs <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Date:
Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:49:30 -0800
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (189 lines)
Hi All :)
    Ok... a humorous note on Body Armor.... back during the first Iraq War
I was the acting Supply Sergeant for a National Guard Infantry unit here in
Oregon... and had to turn back in to "The System" all of our Body Armor
(Flak Vests) for reissue to units going over to Iraq...

    So, I opened the boxes since almost 75% of my vests were brand new in
the box... I pulled the instruction booklet from one of the vests and took
a quick read... after all ... everything in the Army has instructions :)

    The instructions include on the last page a "Record of Hit Form" that
is to be filled out whenever the vest takes a hit... the instructions are
held on in a "pouch/pocket" designed into the inside of the back of the
vest ...

    The instructions included a question (to be filled out at the time of
the hit) "Were you able to continue with your mission?"  The exact wording
I forget but the question was wordied in the First Person!

     And you all say the Army doesn't have a sense of humor :) :) hehehe
I posted the form on my Supply "Shack" door for review :)   And boy the
instructions for how to make sure a Claymore Mine is properly emplaced
facing the enemy and not you... those are funny :)

Art "Claymores ... the key to a Bang Up Job!" Bahrs

=======================================================
Art Bahrs, CISSP           Information Security          The Regence Group
(503) 225-4992              FAX (503) 220-3806


                                                                           
                "Denys                                                     
                Beauchemin"                                                
                <denysnospamwa                                          To 
                [log in to unmask]         [log in to unmask]              
                r.com>                                                  cc 
                Sent by:                                                   
                "HP-3000                                           Subject 
                Systems                Re: [HP3000-L] OT: The Century      
                Discussion"            Ahead                               
                <HP3000-L@RAVE                                             
                N.UTC.EDU>                                                 
                                                                           
                                                                           
                01/16/2006                                                 
                06:31 AM                                                   
                                                                           
                                                                           
                Please respond                                             
                      to                                                   
                [log in to unmask]                                             
                    rr.com                                                 
                |------------|                                             
                | [ ] Secure |                                             
                |     E-mail |                                             
                |------------|                                             
                                                                           




Body armor has become an interesting issue in this war.  If one looks to
history, at some point in the past, heavily armored soldiers were simply
submerged by far more agile opponents or more powerful weapons.  The sun
set
on personal armor after the last knight fell, pun fully intended.

The only piece of body armor in use after that was the helmet; steel,
Kevlar, whatever.  In WWII, bomber pilots and crew used flak jackets in an
attempt to ward off the fragments of shells exploding around, above and
mainly below them, which is why many pilots simply sat on their jackets.

The soldiers on the ground only had their helmets for armor.  Of course,
tanks and other armored vehicles were used, but again these vehicles could
easily be overwhelmed and destroyed by infantry, which is why they never
advanced without covering infantry.

Tanks got progressively faster to the point they were actually able to
outrun the opposing infantry if need be.  In more recent years, tanks have
become so well armored and agile they are able to advance without infantry
support but, tanks are not something you usually want in urban warfare, at
least not without infantry support.  To help infantry keep up with faster
moving tanks, the APC (Armored Personnel Carrier) was developed and over
the
years has taken on many forms, culminating in the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
for the US military.

The HMMWV (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) or Humvee was
developed as the follow on to the Jeep of WWII, Korea and Vietnam fame.
The
Jeep was not armored in any way.  It was meant to be fast, agile and
maneuverable. Some people of a certain age and beyond may recall the TV
program, The Rat Patrol.  When tanks had to stop to aim and fire, they
could
get away with that; I would not try that nowadays.

The Humvee is a far superior vehicle compared to the Jeep, being extremely
agile, much faster and actually able to go in places which would have
stopped a Jeep cold.  This incredible vehicle has proven itself well since
its introduction in the 1980s.  It's one weakness is that it is not
armored,
it was not designed to be armored, check again what the first two letter of
its acronym stand for.

In Iraq, most Humvees have been up-armored to ward of EIDs use by
terrorists, but this has reduced its performance, agility and its
capability
to go virtually anywhere.  The armor is heavy and so not all soldiers want
a
heavy Humvee.

In the US military personal armor came into vogue during and mostly after
Desert Storm.  However, the issue becomes how much armor do you want to
carry and which body parts do you leave unarmored.   Bulletproof vests worn
by police are classified by threat levels.  Some can stop a handgun bullet
and a knife but are easily defeated (in this case, penetrated) by a rifle
bullet.  Others can stop rifle bullets but they will weight you down and
they do not cover all sides or the neck and face.  So, how much armor do
you
want to carry?

When the anti-gunners started making a big fuss about bullets that could
penetrate bulletproof vests currently worn by police, they actually got
more
cops killed because they made the criminals aware of the fact police had
bulletproof vests, the criminals started to aim for unprotected areas.
(You
may also remember the Lethal Weapon movie where a "cop-killer" handgun
bullet was able to easily penetrate a bulldozer blade.  Yeah, there's
reality for you.)

So now the anti-Iraqi Freedom folks are making a big stink about body
armor,
detailing as much as possible which parts of the body are covered and which
are not and what it takes to penetrate the existing armor.  That is very
supportive of the troops in harm's way right now, not. I would suggest the
concern expressed by these people is totally faked and meant to harm the
troops by providing information to the enemy.  Which is why we see soldiers
shot at with an RPG instead of a rifle.

These activists are only interested in doing anything they can to embarrass
the administration and if soldiers die because of their actions, well
that's
just too bad.  To them, making Bush look inept is far more important than a
few soldiers' lives and since the military votes Republican by a wide
margin, they deserve what they get.  (Trust me, I check out The Daily Kaos
every once in a while.  I know what the mainstream liberals are saying.)

I came across this report:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060108/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_body_armor

US Soldiers Question Use of More Armor.  Read it all.



Denys
-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of Johnson, Tracy
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: The Century Ahead

That's because they're working on the Bleex2.

http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/2384

http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/bleex.htm

http://www.gizmag.com/go/2683/

Tracy Johnson
Measurement Specialties, Inc.

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *




 =============================================================================
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited.  Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is intended to be a legally binding signature.
 =============================================================================

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *

ATOM RSS1 RSS2