I suggest you get the following book when it comes out next week. http://tinyurl.com/4vcdk I suspect it may explain a lot of things and may make you realize a few things. We can continue this discussion after the book comes out. TinyURL seems to be having some problems. Try this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060731583/qid=1090856519/sr=2-1/ ref=sr_2_1/104-3613181-7395159 Denys * To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, * * etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *