Indeed Bruce and Tim, I am not claiming Communism is the answer to all the
worlds problems, I am just merely pointing that it does have some merit.
It's ideals aren't evil as maybe portrayed in propaganda films. I would
also add that Socialism and it principles, in part, form the basis for
almost all Western governments.
If you listen to certain people on this list they claim that anyone who even
entertains the idea of Socialism being slightly positive they must in league
with Satan.
I guess I am not sure what constitutes 'works', but I will concede where
Communism has been applied it has been abused in each case and hasn't
succeeded, probably because it goes against human nature. I guess I could
ask where has Capitalism worked. Is American a utopian society with no
crime and no problems. Of course not, but this was the point, no singular
system of government seems to work, only a mix, one might say a Liberal
government, but I'm sure that word will have other negative connotations to
some people.
Personally America's society scare's me. I like living in mainland Europe,
our taxes are high, but we have a very good health service for everyone's
use. We have a welfare system, where very few people fall through the net
and have very little poverty. Also workers cannot just be fired when the
boss feels like it and we also get 20+ days holiday a year. We appear to
have a freer society than America, there's very little social pressure about
drinking and smoking. Prostitution and marijuana are decriminalised in
Belgium and Holland (some might say that's bad, but at least you have the
choice). I will admit, of course there is a downside. People probably
don't work as hard as they do in Britain and the US, there is a lot of
bureaucracy and of course, as I mentioned, we have higher taxes.
In the US the individual gets to keep a lot more of his earnings.
Businesses don't have as much red tape and success is based on financial
gain, so competition for customers means that the level of customer service,
in general, is much better than in Europe. Obviously if you above the
poverty line, life should be quite nice, but if you are below it your
chances of getting a good education, a good job and decent health care, are
limited. Personally I don't like that. I think that America has the
highest percentage of people in poverty in the western world (it probably
has the highest number of wealthy people as well).
Anyway I found this article below, it's just someone's opinion, but I think
it sums up my point of view (except for any religious references).
BTW, Sorry John D.
http://www.kstatecollegian.com/issues/v102/fa/n057/opinion/opn-bailey.html
Though communism's ideal shames capitalism, both fail in the end
Communism as an ideal shames capitalistic greed.
In communism -- not Marxism, but pure communism -- we find a dependence upon
the good in humanity. No one person is above another. All are equal. People
work together, not against one another. Success in pure communism depends
upon the good that resides in each person's heart.
In capitalism we see a dependence upon all that is bad in humanity. All the
most gifted rise to the top. Those who have not been endowed with the gifts
necessary to "climb the ladder" are simply trampled. People work against one
another, pushing and shoving in a desperate attempt to get to the top,
whatever that is.
Success in capitalism depends upon the evil that resides in each person's
heart -- the greed that defines us all.
Without the greed of self-interested people like you and me, capitalism
would crumble. However, because we are by nature very greedy and
self-centered, capitalism flourishes.
Bill Gates did not rise to the top of the computer world simply because he
loved working with computers. Definitely, his motivation to succeed and
willingness to work hard are admirable.
However, the underlying motivation behind almost all capitalistic success
stories -- and most likely Gates' -- is greed. This is not a commentary on
Gates alone, but rather a statement of the general badness that resides
within humanity.
People are driven by the desire to consume more and more, climb higher and
higher, and push harder and harder -- without regard for who or what is left
in the wake of their "success." Left in the wake of such greed are those
who, for whatever reason, cannot -- or will not -- prostitute themselves for
what the system defines as success.
The capitalistic system both disturbs and disgusts me. In an ideal world, I
would find communism preferable.
We do not live in an ideal world.
In our world today, communism does not work. That has been proven in the
past decade. At the very least, it has been proven that communism apart from
God does not work.
And, despite the number of "Jesus Communes" that have sprung up all over the
globe, it has not been definitively proven that communism with God involved
works. People are still far too selfish.
So we find that as a political system, communism fails. And, we find that as
a system of morality, capitalism fails. Some would say the solution is
somewhere in the middle -- socialism, perhaps.
I would contend that when the strengths and weaknesses of the various
political systems are taken into account, one system is not inherently
better than another. The reason for this is that all systems are forced to
be populated by humans. And these humans are always bad.
What, then, do I propose as a solution?
The only solution I see is a solution that takes away the inherent badness
that resides within us all. All religions address the issue in one way or
another.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brice Yokem [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 17 November 2003 16:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Veterans' Day 2003
Tim -
I think what Bill and Richard are trying to say is that Communism is
only a political idea. I am not sure what kind of point they are
trying to make by saying this, but they are right. Why they are
leaving out that part about it never having worked is a mystery.
Bill, Richard, can you clarify why? Are you willing to concede
Communism has never worked? Are you willing to concede it is
an unviable form of government? What?
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