Hi Winston,
Sorry for the first message reply. I hit the wrong key! Did you follow up
with Carly's speech writers on this?
Janice
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:00 PM
To: Recipients of HP3000-L digests
Subject: HP3000-L Digest - 26 Sep 2000 to 27 Sep 2000 (#2000-144)
There are 52 messages totalling 2662 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Quiz question (2)
2. Shareware: txt2pdf 4.x PRO
3. OT :: Wed Humor :: The Manager;
4. Carly Fiorina speak again... (29)
5. New Port: TIDY
6. Worst HPWorld 2000 Demo CD
7. OT: The Legacy Continues, as Re: [HP3000-L] How does MPE sound?
8. NEW Important update on HVD10, Predictive DIAL-IN modem setup an d the
TRANSCRIPT for "Commanding the Enterprise" up on 3kworld.
9. Variable Break up ..
10. WRQ Reflection for HP (5)
11. FW:Re: [HP3000-L] WRQ Reflection fo
12. Network Printing
13. HPWorld Questions (3)
14. Variable Break up and Search Utility..
15. Stormy Weather
16. Search utility.. (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:20:44 -0600
From: Tom <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quiz question
Ron Burnett wrote:
>
> A relatively simple question that even I can answer at this hour of the
> morning!
>
> Try
>
> define new-bodatex char * 6 = ascii(new-bodate)
For today's date, this would result in '926 '. It needs to be
ASCII(new-bodate,6)
>
> and then output the new-bodatex variable to your subfile.
>
> The reason you're getting the separating /'s is because your dictionary
> specifies that character as the date separator and it gets used for
> all occurrences of variables of the type 'date'.
>
> If you need to preserve the variables 'date' type, maybe you can
> use something like
>
> > DEF NEW-BODATE DATE FORMAT YYMMDD noseparator = &
> > DATE(DAYS(BODATE) + 6) IF BODATE <> 0 ELSE 0
>
> Now, shouldn't you have a century included at this late date in the
> 21st century?
>
> Cheers,
> Ron Burnett
> [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:16:02 -0600
From: Tom <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quiz question
DEF NUM-BODATE CHA*6 = ASC(NEW-BODATE,6)
Jim Mc Coy wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to output this field to a subfile without slashes in
the date? (YYMMDD instead of YY/MM/DD)
>
> DEF NEW-BODATE DATE FORMAT YYMMDD = &
> DATE(DAYS(BODATE) + 6) IF BODATE <> 0 ELSE 0
>
> Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:10:48 -0600
From: SANFACE Software <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Shareware: txt2pdf 4.x PRO
txt2pdf 4.x PRO is a very important evolution of txt2pdf 3.x PRO and the
PRO version of txt2pdf 4.x.
We distribute only executable versions (if you need ask us the original
PERL code).
Simpler to install, simpler to use.
You don't need to install PERL, perl modules, libraries.
New very important features!
Your old textual reports will become very pleasing graphical PDF
reports.
The data from your forms (HTML, PDF, Flash, wap, i-mode) will become
pleasing PDF documents.
Your applications will simply integrate the power of txt2pdf 4.x PRO.
txt2pdf PRO offers you all the features of txt2pdf 4.x plus these
important features:
Form Feed (^L) support
-skip1ff option to skip the first form feed
doesn't print file name in the first line
the possibility to set the top and left margins
EPD support. EPD is a new vectorial format. (http://EPD.sourceforge.net)
It's very simple. It uses the PDF graphical syntax with a bounding box
description that allows to create encapsulated object. With txt2pdf 4.x
PRO you can use every EPD object inside layers. You can put it where you
want. You can scale, rotate, ... it.
See the example at http://www.sanface.com/epdtest.pdf
the possibility to create compressed PDFs and to set the compression
factor. Compression works also with EPD.
(only using the executable Windows version or the PERL code)
the possibility to set all the text bold, italic, bold italic
configuration files to change frases with different colours, fonts,
links
mailto option (the possibility to send to the specified user the created
PDF like attach. It's possible to specify the title, the body, the SMTP
the from user) (only using the executable Windows version or the PERL
code)
layers: background, foreground, background only in the first page,
background
in every page without the first, foreground only in the first page
Inside you can use PDF syntax to write and design
#!image#;;;;;;;;#!/image#
#!link#;;;;#!/link#
#!epd#;;;;;;#!/epd#
The registration fee is $750 (US) for 1 CPU, $1000 2 or 3 CPU, $1250 4
or more CPU
every installation.
Download it and test it!
http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdfPRO.html
--
SANFACE Software
Your technology glasses. We help you see your full potential.
http://www.sanface.com
mailto:[log in to unmask]
WAP http://www.sanface.com/wap/
i-mode http://www.sanface.com/i/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:37:35 -0700
From: John Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OT :: Wed Humor :: The Manager;
A man in a hot-air balloon realized that he was lost. Upon reducing
altitude he spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted,
"Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised a friend that I would meet him an
hour ago; but I don't know where I am."
The man below replied, "You are in a hot-air balloon hovering approximately
30 feet above the ground. You are between 40 and 41 degrees north latitude
and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude."
"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"
"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything that you told me is
technically correct; but I have no idea of what to make of your
information, and the fact is, I am still lost. Frankly, you've not been of
much help so far."
The man below responded, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are
going. You have risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air.
You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to
solve your problem. The fact is, you are in exactly the same position that
you were in before we met; but now, somehow, it's my fault."
_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:25:55 -0500
From: Glenn Koster <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Carly Fiorina speak again...
I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the complete
speech).
In a nutshell, she suggested that a major computing shift (again) is just
around the corner. HP's presumption of the coming shift is based on three
beliefs...
1. Solutions must be engineered for the rigors of relentless always-on
Internet environments .
2. Open systems are the best way to help this new universe evolve to its
fullest .
3. Our [HP's] systems must anticipate and embrace the key computing and
technology shifts ahead
There isn't much to argue with on the basic premise. HP has a good track
record with being at the forefront of some shifts (including PA-RISC).
Carly's words, therefore, are worthy of deeper inspection. It is the deeper
inspection that causes me some concern... Here are some of the more
detailed quotes worthy of being repeated...
"So, here's what we mean when we talk about Always-On
Internet Infrastructure . and this is important because its
sets a very high standard- one that very few, if any,
vendors can match.
It includes a combination of:
- The best front-end planning, design, configuration and
performance tuning services.
- Best-in-class hardware and software solutions . including
our networked storage solutions and our integrated software
offerings for managing and securing systems and networks.
- It acknowledges the fact that customers have discrete needs
within their computing environments, needs that require
different computing platforms . therefore NT, HP-UX and
Linux, all receive mission-critical levels of support.
- And finally, when we deliver Always-On solutions it includes
world-class experience in monitoring, managing and supporting
customer environments.
...<skip>
Technology is changing so fast, that to bet a business on
proprietary technology . or on a single technology .
commits an IT environment to becoming a legacy environment.
...<skip large portion>
So in a world characterized by rapid technology
advances, intense competition, and dynamic markets .
the only way to help our customers avoid paralysis
is to provide flexibility . to embrace, support and
promote open, industry standards-based technologies
and platforms. Period.
... <big skip again>
As I said earlier, different operating systems are beginning
to support different application requirements. We believe
NT, HP-UX and Linux are all important and we remain
firmly committed to supporting all three on their existing
chip architectures as well as on IA-64."
<end of quoted texts>
There was a lot more to the speech - and some interesting discussions may
come of it. What I wanted to point out is that Carly has once again done
the despicable... but she went a step further (I believe). She failed to
mention MPE/iX at a time when it was appropriate. Hey, this was a
conference for internet companies. She discussed open systems (and MPE/iX
is one of the most open proprietary systems with Posix), reliable platforms
(any arguments here?), and always on computing (how often does an MPE box go
down - even for scheduled maintenance?). These are three of the major draws
to MPE (in my opinion), and yet she didn't mention MPE again (despite
mentioning UNIX, Windows and Linux). However, she also drove a spike into
the coffin of proprietary systems by equating "proprietary systems" with
"legacy"...
So, I ask you... Is this the death knell from Carly for MPE or a challenge
to greater openness, increased emphasis on Posix?
Glenn J. Koster, Sr.
Quintessential School Systems
Developers of QWEBS (see www.qss.com)
QWEBS : The Next Generation - Coming soon to an HP e3000 near you!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:44:32 +0200
From: Andreas Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: New Port: TIDY
Folks,
within MINUTES (!) I compiled TIDY, a freeware tool to clean up Web pages
(See http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett for details) for our beloved HP
e3000. But I admit, the author Dave Raggett has written in clean C so that
no single problem happens during the compile using gcc! Thanks, Dave!
Interesting enough: Dave thanks HP for financial support during the
development of the S/W .... because he's an HP engineer in U.K.
If interested in please let me know. I'm short in time now but will prepare
an home page for Tidy/iX soon (like for Ploticus/iX) ...
Best regards, Andreas Schmidt, CSC, Germany
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:42:02 -0400
From: "Johnson, Tracy M. [CTA1]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Worst HPWorld 2000 Demo CD
To answer my own post, I figure the worst vendor demo CD
must be the EMC2 CD. Only half the links on the startup
program work (even though they are properly displayed.)
One must instead go to through Windows Explorer on the
CD Drive and click the equivalent of what the start up
program intended.
----
Honorable Mention should go to the mini-CDs that are
too small to insert into autofeed CD Readers. Such as
the Cognos Demo and the IJOB demo. Although
Greenpeace would give them praise for saving plastic.
Tracy (only 2 days to go here) Johnson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:46:14 -0400
From: Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 08:25 AM 9/27/2000 -0500, Glenn Koster wrote:
>I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
>INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
>speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the complete
>speech).
<snip>
Sounds like we need to consider running the ad.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:57:36 -0700
From: Art Bahrs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Hi All :)
What Glenn so Tactfully didn't mention.... but I will! Is why did
Carli have time to speak at Networld + Interop but not at HP World????
Carli doesn't care about talking to her own company's customers? at a
conference that was renamed to Honor the company she heads??
I say we change the name back to Interex.... then maybe Carli will be
interested enough in it to speak at it!
Art "Lets run the Ad and Change the Name BACK!!!! " Bahrs
P.S. And while we are at it.... Lets go back to RUG instead of LUG....
unless we are lugging around our computers? hehehe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Koster" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 6:25 AM
Subject: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
> I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
> INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
> speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the complete
> speech).
>
> In a nutshell, she suggested that a major computing shift (again) is just
> around the corner. HP's presumption of the coming shift is based on three
> beliefs...
>
> 1. Solutions must be engineered for the rigors of relentless always-on
> Internet environments .
> 2. Open systems are the best way to help this new universe evolve to its
> fullest .
> 3. Our [HP's] systems must anticipate and embrace the key computing and
> technology shifts ahead
>
> There isn't much to argue with on the basic premise. HP has a good track
> record with being at the forefront of some shifts (including PA-RISC).
> Carly's words, therefore, are worthy of deeper inspection. It is the
deeper
> inspection that causes me some concern... Here are some of the more
> detailed quotes worthy of being repeated...
>
> "So, here's what we mean when we talk about Always-On
> Internet Infrastructure . and this is important because its
> sets a very high standard- one that very few, if any,
> vendors can match.
>
> It includes a combination of:
>
> - The best front-end planning, design, configuration and
> performance tuning services.
> - Best-in-class hardware and software solutions . including
> our networked storage solutions and our integrated software
> offerings for managing and securing systems and networks.
> - It acknowledges the fact that customers have discrete needs
> within their computing environments, needs that require
> different computing platforms . therefore NT, HP-UX and
> Linux, all receive mission-critical levels of support.
> - And finally, when we deliver Always-On solutions it includes
> world-class experience in monitoring, managing and supporting
> customer environments.
>
> ...<skip>
>
> Technology is changing so fast, that to bet a business on
> proprietary technology . or on a single technology .
> commits an IT environment to becoming a legacy environment.
>
> ...<skip large portion>
>
> So in a world characterized by rapid technology
> advances, intense competition, and dynamic markets .
> the only way to help our customers avoid paralysis
> is to provide flexibility . to embrace, support and
> promote open, industry standards-based technologies
> and platforms. Period.
>
> ... <big skip again>
>
> As I said earlier, different operating systems are beginning
> to support different application requirements. We believe
> NT, HP-UX and Linux are all important and we remain
> firmly committed to supporting all three on their existing
> chip architectures as well as on IA-64."
>
> <end of quoted texts>
>
> There was a lot more to the speech - and some interesting discussions may
> come of it. What I wanted to point out is that Carly has once again done
> the despicable... but she went a step further (I believe). She failed to
> mention MPE/iX at a time when it was appropriate. Hey, this was a
> conference for internet companies. She discussed open systems (and MPE/iX
> is one of the most open proprietary systems with Posix), reliable
platforms
> (any arguments here?), and always on computing (how often does an MPE box
go
> down - even for scheduled maintenance?). These are three of the major
draws
> to MPE (in my opinion), and yet she didn't mention MPE again (despite
> mentioning UNIX, Windows and Linux). However, she also drove a spike into
> the coffin of proprietary systems by equating "proprietary systems" with
> "legacy"...
>
> So, I ask you... Is this the death knell from Carly for MPE or a
challenge
> to greater openness, increased emphasis on Posix?
>
> Glenn J. Koster, Sr.
> Quintessential School Systems
> Developers of QWEBS (see www.qss.com)
> QWEBS : The Next Generation - Coming soon to an HP e3000 near you!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:54:20 -0500
From: Ron Seybold <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Hello Friends:
After I read Glenn Koster's summary of this week's Carly Fiorina
Interop speech, I was grateful for the vigilance of customers on this
list. No, she did not mention MPE in an appropriate place during her
speech. Nice catch, Glenn.
He then wonders, as some might, if her omission is " the death knell
from Carly for MPE, or a challenge to greater openness, increased
emphasis on Posix?"
My take is against the "death knell." Next to my keyboard is a swell
HP World giveaway, one of those stress balls. (You might wonder how
there could be any stress walking down your hallway to work in the
mornings, to write and talk on the phone all day. I wonder, too, but
in deadline this week, I am squeezing.)
This stress ball was an HP giveaway. On it is the company's mantra du jour:
Any platform
Any brand
Any time
At some level, HP gets it. But to do this, it is submerging its
notice of individual brands [like the 3000] to promote the whole HP,
as a company that will make whatever you choose work for you. I think
that Carly's speechwriters don't consider NT or Linux as brands.
HP-UX is a different matter, since HP thinks that is something they
invented. (So says HP VP Duane Zitzner in our Q&A interview for
October. The top technologist for the company's servers says, "We
were fragmenting the brand. What happened what that it wasn't
Hewlett-Packard that was important, it was 3000. Or 9000, or
NetServer or Vectra. And that's not a brand. Hewlett-Packard is the
brand.")
Clearly, this is a place where Carly's speechwriter messed up, by
including HP-UX (an oldstyle brand) and leaving out another. Seeing
this mistake, I went to the plea that 3000 division GM Winston
Prather posted on this list a month ago, to figure out what I should
do. He said:
"I'm sure there will be places that MPE is not mentioned, sometimes
appropriately, sometimes not. I would ask that you don't immediately
turn on the 'flame throwers,' but rather point out these instances so
that we can continue to correct the problem."
So here I am, using Glenn's vigilance to point out this instance.
Yes, I think Always On should include MPE/iX at every mention, if
you're going to mention any oldstyle brands at all. But if Always On
is a Superdome thing, then her speechwriters might be a little bit
unaware of the Dome's capabilities. That's the problem with
mentioning ANY brand of operating environment -- then you gotta
mention them all.
--
Ron Seybold, Editor In Chief
The 3000 NewsWire
Independent Information to Maximize Your HP 3000
http://www.3000newswire.com
512.331.0075 -- [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:11:43 +0200
From: Andreas Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OT: The Legacy Continues, as Re: [HP3000-L] How does MPE sound?
I'm trying to get this book - but it is no longer available (also not via
amazon used books).
Somebody has a spare copy s/he wants to sell ?
TIA, Andreas Schmidt, CSC, Germany
Lars Appel <[log in to unmask]>@RAVEN.UTC.EDU> on 26/09/2000 10:28:13 PM
Please respond to Lars Appel <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: HP-3000 Systems Discussion <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] How does MPE sound?
> ... but clearly Linux is the direction the industry is moving.
Can't help myself, but this part somehow reminded me of the book
"The Legacy Continues..." (by G. Stachnik, P. Sellars, M. Yawn).
The book has several chapters on the "computing waves" of the past.
Maybe the next edition of the book will have an add'l Linux chapter.
;-) lars
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:51:39 -0500
From: "David H. Floyd" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
What is the status of the funding for the ad?
And for those of us who have yet to contribute, can someone please repeat
where to send the check?
Regards,
David H. Floyd
the Support Group, inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Tom Brandt
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 08:25 AM 9/27/2000 -0500, Glenn Koster wrote:
>I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
>INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
>speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the complete
>speech).
<snip>
Sounds like we need to consider running the ad.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:11:43 -0700
From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Open question to HP Executives:
It takes, what, two seconds to add "MPE/iX" to the "NT, HP-UX and Linux"
mantra?
What will happen if you do? Let me be so presumptuous as to answer for you.
Either nothing, in which case you've only wasted two seconds; or, an analyst
or press representative will ask "What is MPE/iX?". Repeat after me now:
"free marketing opportunity".
If the same amount of energy expended explaining why MPE/iX never gets
mentioned by top HP executives when speaking to the press or financial
analysts were instead expended on promoting the platform we would all
(including HP) be much better off.
John (removing my rabble rousing hat) Burke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Koster [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 6:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
>
>
> I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at
> "NETWORLD +
> INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
> speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for
> the complete
> speech).
>
> In a nutshell, she suggested that a major computing shift
> (again) is just
> around the corner. HP's presumption of the coming shift is
> based on three
> beliefs...
>
> 1. Solutions must be engineered for the rigors of relentless
> always-on
> Internet environments .
> 2. Open systems are the best way to help this new universe
> evolve to its
> fullest .
> 3. Our [HP's] systems must anticipate and embrace the key
> computing and
> technology shifts ahead
>
> There isn't much to argue with on the basic premise. HP has
> a good track
> record with being at the forefront of some shifts (including PA-RISC).
> Carly's words, therefore, are worthy of deeper inspection.
> It is the deeper
> inspection that causes me some concern... Here are some of the more
> detailed quotes worthy of being repeated...
>
> "So, here's what we mean when we talk about Always-On
> Internet Infrastructure . and this is important because its
> sets a very high standard- one that very few, if any,
> vendors can match.
>
> It includes a combination of:
>
> - The best front-end planning, design, configuration and
> performance tuning services.
> - Best-in-class hardware and software solutions . including
> our networked storage solutions and our integrated software
> offerings for managing and securing systems and networks.
> - It acknowledges the fact that customers have discrete needs
> within their computing environments, needs that require
> different computing platforms . therefore NT, HP-UX and
> Linux, all receive mission-critical levels of support.
> - And finally, when we deliver Always-On solutions it includes
> world-class experience in monitoring, managing and supporting
> customer environments.
>
> ...<skip>
>
> Technology is changing so fast, that to bet a business on
> proprietary technology . or on a single technology .
> commits an IT environment to becoming a legacy environment.
>
> ...<skip large portion>
>
> So in a world characterized by rapid technology
> advances, intense competition, and dynamic markets .
> the only way to help our customers avoid paralysis
> is to provide flexibility . to embrace, support and
> promote open, industry standards-based technologies
> and platforms. Period.
>
> ... <big skip again>
>
> As I said earlier, different operating systems are beginning
> to support different application requirements. We believe
> NT, HP-UX and Linux are all important and we remain
> firmly committed to supporting all three on their existing
> chip architectures as well as on IA-64."
>
> <end of quoted texts>
>
> There was a lot more to the speech - and some interesting
> discussions may
> come of it. What I wanted to point out is that Carly has
> once again done
> the despicable... but she went a step further (I believe).
> She failed to
> mention MPE/iX at a time when it was appropriate. Hey, this was a
> conference for internet companies. She discussed open
> systems (and MPE/iX
> is one of the most open proprietary systems with Posix),
> reliable platforms
> (any arguments here?), and always on computing (how often
> does an MPE box go
> down - even for scheduled maintenance?). These are three of
> the major draws
> to MPE (in my opinion), and yet she didn't mention MPE again (despite
> mentioning UNIX, Windows and Linux). However, she also drove
> a spike into
> the coffin of proprietary systems by equating "proprietary
> systems" with
> "legacy"...
>
> So, I ask you... Is this the death knell from Carly for MPE
> or a challenge
> to greater openness, increased emphasis on Posix?
>
> Glenn J. Koster, Sr.
> Quintessential School Systems
> Developers of QWEBS (see www.qss.com)
> QWEBS : The Next Generation - Coming soon to an HP e3000 near you!
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:11:42 -0400
From: "Stigers, Greg [And]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
X-no-Archive:yes
Is a wolf a dog?
The problem with asking this now is, if you look at a wolf, it looks
noticeably different from a great number of dogs. But, if you look at an
e3000 on the Internet or your intranet, does it look any different from any
other server serving HTML or XML or running some flavor of scripting or
serving up data via ODBC or even using SQL in a client-server model, or much
of anything else you care to think of?
If it looks the same to all the users and all the business partners, why
should anyone but the internal IT staff who work on it much care what it is,
rather than what it does? This is one case where we shouldn't mind being
asked, what have you done for me today?
Greg Stigers
http://www.cgiusa.com
Hey, HP. What have you done for me today?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:27:08 -0500
From: Wayne Brown <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Yes, I think it's time to resume collecting the money and preparing the ad.
It
will take time and it would be better to have everything ready to go when
needed, rather than having to scramble to pull things together on short
notice.
There are times when you don't want to be caught with your bullet in your
shirt
pocket. :-)
Wayne "Barney Fife" Brown
Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]> on 09/27/2000 09:46:14 AM
Please respond to Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec)
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 08:25 AM 9/27/2000 -0500, Glenn Koster wrote:
>I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
>INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
>speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the complete
>speech).
<snip>
Sounds like we need to consider running the ad.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:36:09 -0700
From: Duane Percox <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Today I feel like an HP Apologist, so I offer some
additional tidbits for all to chew upon:
1. HP has been getting killed by Sun on the high-end
and sees an opportunity now that they have an answer
in the high-end server space. Don't underestimate
the importance of this battle. At the highest levels
of HP and Sun this is war.
2. Industry business analysts have criticized Sun for
only having a box solution. HP has been referenced
as having a more mature total solution. It looks
like HP is upping the ante and trying to make it
even more difficult for Sun to compete.
3. The computing needs of the really large ISP and portals
like AOL/Amazon require *exactly* what Carly is championing.
Boxes like Superdome have incredible profit margin *and*
strategic placement of these systems is required to get
additional HP mindshare.
4. The e3k, even in its largest config, is still a mid-range
system.
5. I got (thanks to Rick Gilligan) a copy of a low-level IO
presentation at HPWorld. This session was talking about the
configuration of PCI and PCI-X for the N-class and A-class
systems. The most exciting part of this material is that
MPE/iX is mentioned equivalently to ux/linux/nt as one
of the operating environments using the PCI/PCI-X IO subsystem.
6. I think our energy and $$ can be more wisely spent developing
new systems and solutions for our favorite platform. Let CSY
fight the battle internal at HP for mindshare. Besides,
I'm beginning to tire of all this negative talk. Its beginning to
appear like a bunch of little kids jumping up and down whining that
they aren't getting what they want.
7. Let Carly says what she has to say to move a 40+ billion $$ company
into the realm of IBM and fend off the likes of Sun. Give support
to our friends at CSY so that our favorite platform can move forward
in a manner that best serves the installed base.
Oh yeah, one last thing.... continue to write good systems that your
customers want so they will continue to buy/upgrade to new e3k boxes
as they become available.
Duane Percox wk: 650.372.0200x608 fax: 650.372.3386
[log in to unmask]
www.qss.com
qwebs.qss.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:45:34 -0400
From: Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 08:36 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, Duane Percox wrote:
<snip>
>5. I got (thanks to Rick Gilligan) a copy of a low-level IO
> presentation at HPWorld. This session was talking about the
> configuration of PCI and PCI-X for the N-class and A-class
> systems. The most exciting part of this material is that
> MPE/iX is mentioned equivalently to ux/linux/nt as one
> of the operating environments using the PCI/PCI-X IO subsystem.
I sometimes think this group is like Kremlinologists during the Cold War:
"Carly said this, but someone else said that, so something must be
happening".
It's like tea-leaf reading.
>6. I think our energy and $$ can be more wisely spent developing
> new systems and solutions for our favorite platform. Let CSY
> fight the battle internal at HP for mindshare. Besides,
> I'm beginning to tire of all this negative talk. Its beginning to
> appear like a bunch of little kids jumping up and down whining that
> they aren't getting what they want.
All good points, but I think an outside push can help the cause - as long
we don't come off as "a bunch of little kids".
>7. Let Carly says what she has to say to move a 40+ billion $$ company
> into the realm of IBM and fend off the likes of Sun. Give support
> to our friends at CSY so that our favorite platform can move forward
> in a manner that best serves the installed base.
>
>Oh yeah, one last thing.... continue to write good systems that your
>customers want so they will continue to buy/upgrade to new e3k boxes
>as they become available.
Absolutely!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:25:41 -0700
From: John Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
The only theory that I could come up with is that there simply is no
extended profit in selling a machine/system that works so well and for so
long. There is far more money to be made on machines/systems that
perpetually require upgrades, maintenance and support.
Somewhat like a car that *could* be manufactured to function far longer than
todays average automobile life. There's only limited profit in that. It's
much more profitable to manufacture an automobile that has a limited life
cycle in order to perpetuate future purchases.
Just my too sense :)
_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:02:13 -0500
From: Cynthia Fowler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Would that car be the Tucker?
>>> John Johnson <[log in to unmask]> 09/27/00 10:25AM >>>
The only theory that I could come up with is that there simply is no
extended profit in selling a machine/system that works so well and for
so
long. There is far more money to be made on machines/systems that
perpetually require upgrades, maintenance and support.
Somewhat like a car that *could* be manufactured to function far longer
than
todays average automobile life. There's only limited profit in that.
It's
much more profitable to manufacture an automobile that has a limited
life
cycle in order to perpetuate future purchases.
Just my too sense :)
_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:28:48 -0400
From: Mark Wonsil <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Ron Seybold writes:
>That's the problem with mentioning ANY brand of operating environment --
then you
>gotta mention them all.
<snip /> and
>Hewlett-Packard is the brand.
This goes right along nicely with the Lou/IBM vs. Carly/HP piece posted
earlier this week. Lou never mentions the details, just the direction.
Carly is offering too much detail and does not leave any wiggle-room. (She
needs to watch the experts the next time she's in Washington D.C. ;-) )
Duane Percox follows:
>Today I feel like an HP Apologist, so I offer some
>additional tidbits for all to chew upon:
No apology required.
<very_thoughtful_and_excellent_chew_snipped />
When I learned at HPWorld that HP rewrote the *entire* MPE/iX I/O system for
PCI, I thought to myself, "Nobody does that much work on a platform that is
going to die any time soon." This is commitment!
The IBM comparison has turned my thinking around completely and I think
Duane proves it to me again. Develop solutions that people want to buy and
sell these solutions - do not sell boxes or operating systems. Superdome's
Virtual Machine capability is a step in this direction. I just as soon not
ever hear Carly mention MPE/iX again. Then again, I hope she never mentions
NT, 2K, Linux or UX either. Just talk your always on, internet appliances,
e-services and digital eco systems and leave the details to those who know
what they are doing. (BTW, Am I the only one tiring of these biological
references used in our industry? (Microsoft's Windows DNA, Digital DNA by
Motorola, HP Digital Eco-system. Hmmm. I wonder what I would find in an
MPE/iX STD file?)
Mark Wonsil
4M Enterprises, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:31:49 -0700
From: Donna Garverick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Duane Percox wrote:
> 6. I think our energy and $$ can be more wisely spent developing
> new systems and solutions for our favorite platform. Let CSY
> fight the battle internal at HP for mindshare. Besides,
> I'm beginning to tire of all this negative talk. Its beginning to
> appear like a bunch of little kids jumping up and down whining that
> they aren't getting what they want.
ah 'whining' :-)
for the 10 people who already heard me say this during sig sysman :-) i
apologize for saying this again....
as a whole, hp3000-l has whining down to an art. we take every deserved
and undeserved opportunity to jump allover hp. i fully admit that at times
hp should be 'taken to the shed' but it doesn't detract from my point --
that we do very little other than whine.
as a group, i feel we represent some of the *best* computer people in the
industry -- in terms of character and experience. yet, are we part of
mpe's problem or are we part of the solution? frankly, i feel that if we
do nothing but complain and gripe -- then we most certainly are part of the
problem.
during sig sysman, i challenged both hp/csy and the mpe community to find a
way to promote mpe. in winston's email, he clearly said he (and i'll take
that as meaning 'csy') wanted to work with us to improve mpe. when i think
of the energy that 3000-l can generate, when i think of the passion
demonstrated *every* day on this list -- i have no doubt that *we* hold the
future to mpe! and when (not if) this is coupled with csy -- i see no
limits to what can be done.
several of the sig leaders met with dave wilde during hp world to start
building the foundation of this partnership. but a dozen people aren't
going to be able to carry this off all by themselves.
so i ask -- hp3000-l? what are we going to do to help mpe? i have one
idea. i think all of us know 3000 shops that are completely disconnected
from 'the outside world'. they don't belong to interex. they don't know
of or participate on the list. we need to get them -- an quickly --
because they're probably ready to turn off their mpe box(es) because they
don't know what mpe can do for them *today*. who has another idea?
and i ask -- hp/csy? give us a way to partner with you. tell us how we
can help. there's an army ready to be mobilized but we need a general.
ron seybold called me a 'john the baptist' once upon a time. i'll take the
title :-) - d
--
Donna Garverick Sr. System Programmer
925-210-6631 [log in to unmask]
>>>MY opinions, not Longs Drug Stores'<<<
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:51:36 EDT
From: Wirt Atmar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
donna writes:
> ron seybold called me a 'john the baptist' once upon a time. i'll take
the
> title :-)
You know John the Baptist is generally portrayed as being a little wacko,
don't you? (I mean literally. He wasn't said to be the sanest guy on the
block).
And that ultimately he had his head served to him on a platter (I mean this
mostly literally. He actually had his head served on a platter to Salome,
but
the idea still holds :-).
I don't know that this holds any relevance, but it is something to consider
:-).
Wirt Atmar
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:08:50 -0700
From: Bruce Toback <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Glenn Koster quotes Carly Fiorina:
> - It acknowledges the fact that customers have discrete needs
> within their computing environments, needs that require
> different computing platforms . therefore NT, HP-UX and
> Linux, all receive mission-critical levels of support.
> Technology is changing so fast, that to bet a business on
> proprietary technology . or on a single technology .
> commits an IT environment to becoming a legacy environment.
Golly, but this is funny.
Not only does this imply that "legacy" = "obsolete", but it also implies
the NT is nonproprietary (and therefore, nonlegacy). It also implies that
the best way to run a mission-critical site is to change systems every
three months.
Is this person a CEO, or a columnist?
-- Bruce
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Toback Tel: (602) 996-8601| My candle burns at both ends;
OPT, Inc. (800) 858-4507| It will not last the night;
11801 N. Tatum Blvd. Ste. 142 | But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -
Phoenix AZ 85028 | It gives a lovely light.
btoback AT optc.com | -- Edna St. Vincent Millay
Mail sent to [log in to unmask] will be inspected for a
fee of US$250. Mailing to said address constitutes agreement to
pay, including collection costs.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:29:45 -0400
From: Joseph Rosenblatt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Donna wrote:
>ah 'whining' :-)
>for the 10 people who already heard me say this during sig sysman :-) i
apologize for saying this again....
>as a whole, hpe3000-l has whining down to an art. we take every deserved
and undeserved opportunity to jump allover hp. i >fully admit that at times
hp should be 'taken to the shed' but it doesn't detract from my point --that
we do very little other than >whine.
<whine>
Hey! That's not fair. Not fair! Not fair! Not fair. : -)
Seriously donna's point about helping HP market the e3000 is valid. I think
that many of us have tried in the past. Alfredo, Joe Geiser and others do
marketing tours. We all give our two cents worth and not just in a whining
way. If I was struck by anything at HP World it was the sincerity of the CSY
people, from Winston on down. I can unequivocally say that I believe they
are making every attempt to "do the right thing." I am not sure how much
further up the HP corporate ladder my trust goes. Carly is doing what she
perceives to be in the best interest of HP, i.e. the shareholders. Her
perception of "good" and mine may not agree but she is the one being paid to
define "good" not me.
Sitting in the MPE Roundtable we discussed the marketing issue. We were told
that HP had few or no plans to do any massive ad campaigns for the e3000. If
the marketing budget isn't there then it isn't there and we can't change
that. What can we do that won't cost money? We have hashed and rehashed the
fact that *C* level executives may never have heard of the e3000. If HP
executives mention the platform whenever possible we can use those quotes to
market the e3000 at least internally. Talk is cheap, literally.
This is one of the major points we have been trying to publicize. I know
Winston understands this point. Does Ann? Does Duane? Does Carly? Is this
whining? If yes, so be it.
Some one asked earlier in this thread why is marketing the e3000 our job. I
am reminded of a sign I saw in a small shop. It read, "If you like the
product tell your friends. If you didn't like the product tell me." I think
we like the product. Let's tell our friends. Let's help HP tell their
friends. I don't know much about marketing. I do not know that I can
contribute much in the way of innovative marketing schemes. I do know that I
am willing to be a simple foot soldier in this battle.
We should all help in anyway that we can. One thing I am going to try to do
is restart my local RUG. Little things do matter.
</whine>
Joseph
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:28:34 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: NEW Important update on HVD10,
Predictive DIAL-IN modem setup an d the TRANSCRIPT for "Commanding
the Enterprise" up on 3kworld.
Instead of flooding the 3000-L with junk, I thought I'd roll several
interesting links into one posting. It should make it easier to pick out
what you can use, hopefully. Check out the following links if you like
UPDATED HVD10 Support on MPE/iX as of September 21, 2000 (that's when HP
published it...)
http://www.3kworld.com/link.asp?page=68
Activating the Predictive Support DIAL IN on the 9x9 family CHEAT SHEET.
http://www.3kworld.com/link.asp?page=69
TRANSCRIPT for "Commanding the Enterprise" with HP's Pam Miller.
http://www.3kworld.com/link.asp?page=70
Thanks, hope this helps!
Chris Gauthier,
(chris the geek)
[log in to unmask]
303-614-8239
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:33:26 -0400
From: Jim Phillips <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Donna Garverick <[log in to unmask]> writes:
<snip whine about us whining too much>
> ron seybold called me a 'john the baptist' once upon a time. i'll take
the
> title :-) - d
And then Wirt points out that:
> You know John the Baptist is generally portrayed as being a little wacko,
> don't you? (I mean literally. He wasn't said to be the sanest guy on the
> block).
>
> And that ultimately he had his head served to him on a platter (I mean
this
> mostly literally. He actually had his head served on a platter to Salome,
but
> the idea still holds :-).
Not to mention that John the Baptist was only the precursor to the Real
Thing. So, not to carry this analogy/metaphor/allegory too far, but is MPE
only the precursor to the Real Thing? What exactly does HP want from us
(who use MPE)? To move to HP-UX? To give up and go home? To move to the
AS/400? To shut up and be good little cash cows?
(Somehow I just don't feel like mooing today!)
Jim Phillips Manager of Information Systems
E-Mail: [log in to unmask] Therm-O-Link, Inc.
Phone: (330) 527-2124 P. O. Box 285
Fax: (330) 527-2123 10513 Freedom Street
Web: http://www.tolwire.com Garrettsville, Ohio 44231
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:38:27 -0700
From: Doug Becker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
No, the Packard.
>>> Cynthia Fowler <[log in to unmask]> 09/27 9:02 AM >>>
Would that car be the Tucker?
>>> John Johnson <[log in to unmask]> 09/27/00 10:25AM >>>
The only theory that I could come up with is that there simply is no
extended profit in selling a machine/system that works so well and for
so
long. There is far more money to be made on machines/systems that
perpetually require upgrades, maintenance and support.
Somewhat like a car that *could* be manufactured to function far longer
than
todays average automobile life. There's only limited profit in that.
It's
much more profitable to manufacture an automobile that has a limited
life
cycle in order to perpetuate future purchases.
Just my too sense :)
_______________________________________________________
Say Bye to Slow Internet!
http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:02:30 -0700
From: Mark Bixby <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Variable Break up ..
Somebody asked via private e-mail for an explanation of what's happening in
this script, so here goes...
Mark Bixby wrote:
> A POSIX shell solution:
>
> nomad:/BIXBY/PUB/demo$ cat ./split
> #!/bin/sh
>
> TEMPVAR="[log in to unmask]"
>
> OLDIFS="$IFS"
> IFS=.
> set -- $TEMPVAR
> IFS="$OLDIFS"
The primary magic of splitting the string at the periods is being done via
the
IFS environment variable. From "man sh":
IFS contains a series of characters to be use as internal field
separator characters. During word expansion (see Word
Expansion), the presence of any of these characters within a word
causes that word to be split. In addition, the shell uses these
characters to separate values put into variables with the read
command. Lastly, the first character in the value of IFS
separates the positional parameters in $* expansion. By default,
IFS contains space, tab, and newline.
The "set --" command does word expansion on the parameters that follow, and
then assigns the first word to $1, the second word to $2, etc.
Because IFS affects the fundamental parsing of the shell, you need to save &
restore the original value or else your script could behave REALLY strangely
on
subsequent commands that are expecting whitespace in IFS.
> echo "file=$1"
> echo "group=$2"
> echo "account=$3"
>
> nomad:/BIXBY/PUB/demo$ ./split
> file=AI@J
> group=GROUP1
> account=ACCOUNT1
>
> - Mark B.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:55:08 -0600
From: John <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: WRQ Reflection for HP
Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup, bbs, or whatever; devoted
exclusively to the WRQ Reflection for HP products? WRQ's web site is
unhelpful and while there is mention of a WRQ bbs in my software (v6.0),
I can not find any such animal.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:24:08 -0500
From: Ronald R Horner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection for HP
Maybe the question should be, Is WRQ something that we would like to see as
a listserve. If the answer is yes, then how do we start it up. I'd be
interested in something like that.
Later
John wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup, bbs, or whatever; devoted
> exclusively to the WRQ Reflection for HP products? WRQ's web site is
> unhelpful and while there is mention of a WRQ bbs in my software (v6.0),
> I can not find any such animal.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Ron Horner
HP3000 Systems Admin
JC Penney Co., Inc.
(414) 259-2274
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:40:00 -0500
From: Jim Brust <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW:Re: [HP3000-L] WRQ Reflection fo
That would be of interest to me also.
This E-Mail & responses may be reviewed by BCBS NE security.
BCBS NE
2401 South 73rd Street
P.O.Box 241739
Omaha NE 68124-5739
Phone 402 392 4223 Fax 402 392 4158
E-Mail [log in to unmask]
------------------( Forwarded letter 1 follows )---------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:24:08 -0500
To: [log in to unmask]
From: Ronald.R.Horner[rrhorner]@JCPENNEY.COM
Sender: [log in to unmask]
Reply-To: Ronald.R.Horner[rrhorner]@JCPENNEY.COM,
John[jepollard]@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] WRQ Reflection for HP
Maybe the question should be, Is WRQ something that we would like to see as
a listserve. If the answer is yes, then how do we start it up. I'd be
interested in something like that.
Later
John wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup, bbs, or whatever; devoted
> exclusively to the WRQ Reflection for HP products? WRQ's web site is
> unhelpful and while there is mention of a WRQ bbs in my software (v6.0),
> I can not find any such animal.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Ron Horner
HP3000 Systems Admin
JC Penney Co., Inc.
(414) 259-2274
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:44:30 -0700
From: "Newton, Tony" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection for HP
I'd tune in.
___
Tony Newton
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald R Horner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:24 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] WRQ Reflection for HP
>
>
> Maybe the question should be, Is WRQ something that we would
> like to see as
> a listserve. If the answer is yes, then how do we start it
> up. I'd be
> interested in something like that.
>
> Later
>
> John wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup, bbs, or whatever; devoted
> > exclusively to the WRQ Reflection for HP products? WRQ's
> web site is
> > unhelpful and while there is mention of a WRQ bbs in my
> software (v6.0),
> > I can not find any such animal.
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> --
> Ron Horner
> HP3000 Systems Admin
> JC Penney Co., Inc.
> (414) 259-2274
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:17:44 -0700
From: Tracy Pierce <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection for HP
Me too. Hey, WRQ, are you listening?
I managed to circumvent WRQ's ROADBLOCKS on one occasion, and hooked up with
(To Remain Anonymous) who kindly helped a bit when I was trying to switch an
R1 command file from ancient RCL to VBA. But unfortunately when I asked for
just one real-life example of a host-driven GUI selection box via Reflection
VBA, TRA told me "Yes, we can do it all. Call our Sales department, they
can quote you a price for some consulting".
While we're all aware that WRQ is downsizing fast, it seems to have escaped
the minds of WRQ management that teaching the users of their (existing,
profitable) product HOW to use their product would go a long way toward
LOCKING us into their product for many years, licensing the full high-dollar
product for EACH SEAT, not just us nosy programmers.
(Apologies to TRA; please pass this upstairs?)
K Tracy Pierce, Systems Programmer
Golden Gate Bridge, Hwy & Trnsp Dist
PO Box 9000, Presidio Station
San Francisco, CA 94129-0601
mailto:[log in to unmask]
415-923-2266
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Newton, Tony [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection for HP
>
>
> I'd tune in.
> ___
> Tony Newton
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ronald R Horner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:24 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] WRQ Reflection for HP
> >
> >
> > Maybe the question should be, Is WRQ something that we would
> > like to see as
> > a listserve. If the answer is yes, then how do we start it
> > up. I'd be
> > interested in something like that.
> >
> > Later
> >
> > John wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know if there is a newsgroup, bbs, or
> whatever; devoted
> > > exclusively to the WRQ Reflection for HP products? WRQ's
> > web site is
> > > unhelpful and while there is mention of a WRQ bbs in my
> > software (v6.0),
> > > I can not find any such animal.
> > >
> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > Before you buy.
> >
> > --
> > Ron Horner
> > HP3000 Systems Admin
> > JC Penney Co., Inc.
> > (414) 259-2274
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:42:34 -0600
From: "FAIRCHILD,CRAIG (HP-Cupertino,ex1)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Thus it is written in Wirt's writ:
> donna writes:
>
> > ron seybold called me a 'john the baptist' once upon a time. i'll take
the
> > title :-)
>
> You know John the Baptist is generally portrayed as being a little wacko,
> don't you? (I mean literally. He wasn't said to be the sanest guy on the
> block).
If we dig a little deeper, there may be something of worth to find here.
John's sanity depended largely on who you asked. John was quite popular with
the general masses. They were eager to hear what he had to say and found him
compelling. John's sanity was never in question by this group.
On the other hand, he was quite unpopular with people who held positions of
common authority. This was mostly because he was honest in publicly
proclaiming the hypocrisy of some of these leaders and forcefully demanding
that they "walk the talk." Because he had the audacity to publicly criticize
these leaders, eventually to his own detriment, it would not be unthinkable
that those leaders assumed that he must be working with less than a full
deck.
Of course, John was motivated by working for a higher cause, and wasn't
particularly concerned with what the leaders thought of him.
>
> And that ultimately he had his head served to him on a platter (I mean
this
> mostly literally. He actually had his head served on a platter to Salome,
but
> the idea still holds :-).
>
> I don't know that this holds any relevance, but it is something to
consider
> :-).
Most prophets met a rather untimely end at the hands of the people who were
on the receiving end of their message. I guess it just shows that if you're
in the prophet business, you'd better have some pretty good life insurance!
:-) Naturally, proclaiming the coming of the Savior of the world is a
somewhat larger task than proclaiming the benefits of the HPe3000, so the
risks/rewards of that proposition are hopefully correspondingly greater than
what Donna would face. :-)
>
> Wirt Atmar
>
An interesting analogy.
Take Care,
Craig
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:37:46 -0700
From: Donna Garverick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Joseph Rosenblatt wrote:
> Seriously donna's
(see? lowercase :-)
> point about helping HP market the e3000 is valid.
thank you
> Some one asked earlier in this thread why is marketing the e3000 our job.
I
> am reminded of a sign I saw in a small shop. It read, "If you like the
> product tell your friends. If you didn't like the product tell me." I
think
> we like the product. Let's tell our friends. Let's help HP tell their
> friends. I don't know much about marketing. I do not know that I can
> contribute much in the way of innovative marketing schemes. I do know that
I
> am willing to be a simple foot soldier in this battle.
that's exactly what needs to be done!
> We should all help in anyway that we can. One thing I am going to try to
do
> is restart my local RUG. Little things do matter.
excellent! thank you, joseph :-) - d
--
Donna Garverick Sr. System Programmer
925-210-6631 [log in to unmask]
>>>MY opinions, not Longs Drug Stores'<<<
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:54:33 -0500
From: Cynthia Fowler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Network Printing
Does anyone know if this patch has been marked "BAD"? I installed this
patch on 9/16 and everything appears to have run okay until 9/24/00 when
I installed TIXLX74B on our 6.0pp2 system. Now I have literally
THOUSANDS of copies of one or two reports generating during the night,
taking down the spooler. Another part of our equation is that we use
NBSpool and VISTA Plus from Quest Software and the reports in question
here have multiple copies with banners (with different user's names on
each report). Of course with each newly generated report in the spooler,
we get a new banner added....I've seen up to 12 banners attached to the
fronts of some of these reports! I've thrown probably 6 full boxes of
14-7/8x11 paper out in the last 4 days! I've been working with Quest,
but so far their software seems to be okay. Has anyone else seen this
problem? Is there a solution?
TIA,
Cindee
Cynthia Bridges-Fowler
MIS Operations Analyst
IMC Salt, Inc., a division of IMC Global
[log in to unmask]
http://www.imcsalt.com
>>> "Bartram, Chris" <[log in to unmask]> 09/22/00 01:32PM
>>>
The MPELX39 patch has variants for 5.5, 6.0, and 6.5 and addresses
exactly
that problem. I was a beta site for it, and saw those issues frequently
on a
variety of printers. Usually it has to do with a status message from a
secondary tray or something non-critical that confused the spooler,
causing
it to assume the file never printed - and printing it over again.
Contact
HPRC and get the patch.
-Chris Bartram
-----Original Message-----
From: Wesley Setree [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Network Printing
I wonder if this is the same problem I am getting... we
will
have hundreds of copies of 1 report spit out of a network printer when
the
spooler only states 1 copy. We have looked at file statements and
programs
to find the cause but to no avail. It happens at different plants at
different times of the day and not every day. I usually have to do a
combination of stopspool and abortio to get the printer to stop then
delete
the spool file. We are running 5.5 P7. I don't think a patch on 5.5
addresses this issue. Is this a known problem for HP?
>>> Lane Rollins <[log in to unmask]> 09/22 12:40 PM >>>
There is a newer patch at least for 6.0 that sounds
like it
addresses the
problem, it's MPELX39B. I haven't tried it yet so I'm
not
sure how well it
will work. I tend to see this problem on our LPQ1500
then
the laser
printers.
-Lane
on 9/22/00 8:34 AM, Jim Phillips at
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> We have some HP LJ4500 printers that take forever to
warm
up. When printing
> from the HP3000, we will usually get duplicate (and
sometimes more) copies
> of the
> spool file.
>
> Here is the global portion of the NPCONFIG file:
>
> global (banner_header = FALSE
> banner_trailer = FALSE
> data_timeout = 30
> snmp_timeout = 5
> snmp_max_retries = 3
> message_interval = 15
> pjl_supported = FALSE
> jam_recovery = FALSE)
>
> What can I tweak here to prevent the duplicate copies
from
printing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Phillips Manager of
Information Systems
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask] Therm-O-Link,
Inc.
> Phone: (330) 527-2124 P. O. Box
285
> Fax: (330) 527-2123 10513 Freedom
Street
> Web: http://www.tolwire.com Garrettsville, Ohio
44231
!
!
!
!
!
!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:02:13 -0700
From: Shawn Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Last week I got invited to an evening presentation that IBM was having in
my area, it was a small, invitation only event, about 30 people. Dinner,
open bar and presentations. They were talking about their work on the
Olympics, and I was struck that they were using just about every style of
machine in their stable. As other's have mentioned, they talk about
solutions, not about specific machines mostly.
I was sitting and eating with 4 different people from IBM having very
interesting conversations, and they were jumping all over me for an
opportunity to be a partner for a new system we will be building for a
client, and odd's are they will get the business because they can supply
80-90% of what I need. HP can supply about 60%, and doesn't seem to make
much effort to get involved in these types of projects.
Build a killer app, and sell it - no one cares what it's running on for the
most part, they want a solution. IBM will dump machines at my doorstep in
24 hours (a slight exaggeration). HP, I must track down their program
coordinator, write something up, pay them a fee, wait some more, maybe get
something, maybe not. Not a lot of incentive for a developer.
I love the 3k, I wish to heck HP would make it just a teeny bit easier to
work with them.
Shawn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:05:52 -0700
From: Shawn Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
I totally disagree - that money could be spent to actually build all or
part of some apps-on-tap application.
The real way to get HP's attention is to write apps that people need that
require the 3000 to run. Running an ad is a criminal waste of money from
the user community. At a minimum it should go to charity and get the news
agencies to cover the event, and why it's being done.
At 08:27 AM 9/27/2000, Wayne Brown wrote:
>Yes, I think it's time to resume collecting the money and preparing the
>ad. It
>will take time and it would be better to have everything ready to go when
>needed, rather than having to scramble to pull things together on short
>notice.
>There are times when you don't want to be caught with your bullet in your
>shirt
>pocket. :-)
>
>Wayne "Barney Fife" Brown
>
>
>
>
>Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]> on 09/27/2000 09:46:14 AM
>
>Please respond to Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>cc: (bcc: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec)
>
>Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
>
>
>
>At 08:25 AM 9/27/2000 -0500, Glenn Koster wrote:
> >I don't know how many of you caught any of Carly's speech at "NETWORLD +
> >INTEROP" in Atlanta yesterday. I know I didn't, but I have read her
> >speech... and there are some disturbing bits in her text (see
> >http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/ceo/speeches/ceo_networld_00.htm for the
complete
> >speech).
>
><snip>
>
>Sounds like we need to consider running the ad.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:20:07 -0400
From: Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 01:05 PM 9/27/2000 -0700, Shawn Gordon wrote:
>I totally disagree - that money could be spent to actually build all or
>part of some apps-on-tap application.
>
>The real way to get HP's attention is to write apps that people need that
>require the 3000 to run. Running an ad is a criminal waste of money from
>the user community. At a minimum it should go to charity and get the news
>agencies to cover the event, and why it's being done.
"Criminal" is a bit over-the-top. Everyone who contributed to the ad fund
knows exactly what it is going for; there is no deception here.
Reasonable people can disagree on whether it is a waste of money or not,
those who think it is a waste don't have to contribute.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:20:04 -0600
From: Cortlandt Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: HPWorld Questions
> in the SIG's, did HP respond with anything other than "we are busy
> with IA64"
What was said of the status of IA64 for MPE? I don't know of an
official status report since 1998.
- Cortlandt
P.S. HP now has a IA64 program for NT, Linux, and HP-UX but nothing
for MPE/iX.
"Chuck Ryan" <[log in to unmask]> wrote in message
news:39c918d5$3_1@skycache-news.fidnet.com...
> For those of you that went to HP World:
>
> In an earlier thread I asked if there was any new, non-posix,
development
> for the 3000 underway at CSY that did more than just keep up with
growing
> resource requirements or support for new hardware released by HP.
Mark Bixby
> responded with "I'll leave any announcements for the appropriate
people to
> make at HPWorld".
>
> So, did anyone hear anything interesting?
>
> Also, in the SIG's, did HP respond with anything other than "we are
busy
> with IA64" when asked about an item on the SIG's enhancement request
list?
> This was the only answer I heard at the last HP World I attended and
it
> replaced the "we are busy with Y2K". (I tried to find a way to word
this so
> it did not sound overly negative, as it is not really meant to be,
but more
> as an indication of frustration with the previous answers).
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:49:08 -0500
From: Wayne Brown <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Exactly. When I give to charity, I do so directly, not through HP3000-L. I
contributed to this ad campaign for the purpose of publishing the "open
letter
to Carly" that was discussed here a few weeks ago. It's unlikely that any
of us
will ever get to walk up to the microphone during one of Carly's press
conferences and say, "Excuse me, Ms. Fiorina, but would you kindly explain
to
these ladies and gentlemen of the press why you insist on ignoring the
HP3000
and its many loyal users?" The WSJ ad can accomplish much the same thing,
and
before a much greater audience.
Wayne
Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]> on 09/27/2000 03:20:07 PM
Please respond to Tom Brandt <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec)
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] Carly Fiorina speak again...
At 01:05 PM 9/27/2000 -0700, Shawn Gordon wrote:
>I totally disagree - that money could be spent to actually build all or
>part of some apps-on-tap application.
>
>The real way to get HP's attention is to write apps that people need that
>require the 3000 to run. Running an ad is a criminal waste of money from
>the user community. At a minimum it should go to charity and get the news
>agencies to cover the event, and why it's being done.
"Criminal" is a bit over-the-top. Everyone who contributed to the ad fund
knows exactly what it is going for; there is no deception here.
Reasonable people can disagree on whether it is a waste of money or not,
those who think it is a waste don't have to contribute.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:01:38 -0700
From: Doug Becker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: WRQ Reflection for HP
Can anyone tell us more about the "downsizing" at WRQ?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:05:05 -0400
From: "Emerson, Tom # El Monte" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Actually, you just might be able to do that -- walk up to the mic, etc. I
stumbled accross some [spam] that was promoting "your chance to voice your
opinion on the radio" For $35, you can say anything you want [within
certain FCC imposed legalities] for up to 30 seconds. (if you go to 31
seconds, it'll be $70 -- they cut you off at 2 minutes, however...) The
"ad" will run during one of their talk shows via a 50,000 watt station [and
broadcast over the internet]
Sorry I don't remember any more specifics than that, but while you could
probably do this, I personally doubt it will reach your "intended audience",
or even if you did, it'd be buried under the avalanche of "happy birthday"
or "so-and-so rules/bites" types of ads that nobody would notice.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>
[...] It's
> unlikely that any of us
> will ever get to walk up to the microphone during one of Carly's press
> conferences and say, "Excuse me, Ms. Fiorina, but would you
> kindly explain to
> these ladies and gentlemen of the press why you insist on
> ignoring the HP3000
> and its many loyal users?" The WSJ ad can accomplish much
> the same thing, and
> before a much greater audience.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:23:00 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Variable Break up and Search Utility..
Hi all,
Thanks once again to everybody who contributed their valuable suggestions
for Variable breakup and the Grep utility. I was able to find out more
behind these functions and was able to successfully implement it in what I
wanted. Definitely it would not have been possible without all your
responses..
You all have a nice day..
With Regards
Raghu.
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BlueShield of Tennessee, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:14:56 -0700
From: Gavin Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: HPWorld Questions
Courtland asks:
> What was said of the status of IA64 for MPE? I don't know of an
> official status report since 1998.
Work would appear to be well underway on that project though obviously their
focus at the moment is the N class stuff which is also a prerequisite for
IA-64 since IA-64 will arrive first in the N boxes most likely.
On Dave Snow's roadmap IA-64 was listed as "after 2003", which is about what
one would expect considering the delays in IA-64 and the fact that Superdome
won't have IA-64 until some time in 2002.
There's plenty of headroom in PA-RISC between now and then (and even
afterwards it sounds like) so there's no particular hurry that I can see in
wanting to get MPE on IA-64.
From the user's point of view, IA-64 probably isn't going to be a big deal.
MPE will still be MPE and I would not expect that many user-visible changes
as a result of the IA-64 transition.
G.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:45:38 -0700
From: Gavin Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Stormy Weather
So, once again in the life of the 3000 the storm clouds are gathering and
the winds are whipping around trying to dislodge the 3000 and blow it away.
The 3000 has weathered many rain showers, squalls, tornadoes, and the
occasional hurricane and earthquake (both figuratively and literally) over
the years and it has always come out the far end looking as good as ever.
In fact the 3000 has shown significantly more resiliency and longevity than
any recent HP CEO.
Hence the survival of the 3000 is probably more a matter of simply grabbing
a tree and hanging on rather than trying to stand up and defy the storm.
It's not necessary to meet the storm on its terms, you simply need to hang
on long enough and eventually the storm will blow itself out.
Of course your average 3000 has no hands with which to hang on during the
storm, so it requires that enough HP employees, application vendors, and
customers keep their grip on it during the stormy weather. If enough people
let go, then there's no stopping the result even if there are still a lot of
people trying to hang on.
In the current case, it appears to me that those in charge of HP have this
Grand Vision(tm) which will enhance shareholder value through creative use
of internet buzzwords. This Vision involves an almost religious fervor for
the latest round of "open is good", "proprietary is bad" thinking in the
industry.
This is almost exactly the same thing we went through ten years ago when HP
decided at a high level that HP-UX was the future. All of the slogans are
the same, it's just that we now have "Internet", "Linux", and "Open Source"
as the nouns rather than "Open Systems", "Unix", "Client/Server", etc.
Someone once said that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle
to the strong, but that's the way to bet. People who have betting against
the 3000 for the last 15 years must be really tired of losing what looked
like "sure thing" opportunities over and over again.
Of course in some cases they were so sure of the outcome that they never
bothered to check the results of the race. In reading Joel Birnbaum's
recent comments about Unix, it sounds as though HP's management of the day
felt that they had issued an edict to the effect that "all MPE customers
will be moved to HP-UX because we know that it's the right thing for them"
and some (Joel at least) still assume that it actually happened.
Fortunately the message didn't make it all the way down to the trenches
(though it did a lot of damage in the middle-management levels that we've
been trying to recover from ever since).
Changing the direction of a large ship is hard, changing the direction of a
big company is much harder, and changing the attitudes and direction of
80,000 employees is like trying to herd cats.
One of the things that really worried me a year ago when Carly took over HP
was her statement that she was going to change the thinking and outlook of
every employee in the company. Maybe there are some companies where this is
possible, but not for the Hewlett-Packard that I'm familiar with :-)
So Carly has her work cut out for her if she wants to really make a
difference. All of this grand posturing and high level strategic
directional thinking is fine, but things aren't going to change and your
Grand Vision(tm) isn't going to get implemented with nothing but
proclamations from on high. Some of those people in the trenches and their
management are going to have to take the ball and run with it, and this is
going to have to happen over and over throughout the company if things are
going to actually change.
Glenn quotes Carly:
> "So, here's what we mean when we talk about Always-On
> Internet Infrastructure . and this is important because its
> sets a very high standard- one that very few, if any,
> vendors can match.
As I said before, I think HP needs to work on its own always-on[-fire]
infrastructure before they go telling people that they know best how to run
their business.
The whole Superdome announcement comes off as if HP is saying "you don't
know how to run your business but we do". There's a sort of elitist
exclusivity to the whole Superdome program. You have to convince HP that
you are worthy of even being a prospect for the machine or they won't talk
to you about it. HP will decide whether your technical people are competent
enough to be trusted with their machine. HP will move in and live with you
and tell you how you should do things because HP knows the Internet and you
don't.
HP kind of comes across as a "wannabe" who is behaving as though they know
everything about everything, yet they seem long on posturing and short on
grunt-level detail. It's no wonder that the press doesn't seem to get
excited no matter what the quantity of smoke, lasers, and dramatic speeches
by executives at their announcements.
The HP-e3000 is one of the few places where HP actually delivers on the new
promises that Carly is touting.
> Technology is changing so fast, that to bet a business on
> proprietary technology . or on a single technology .
> commits an IT environment to becoming a legacy environment.
Or a Legendary environment.
HP-UX changes radically every couple years, Windows every year, and Linux
every month. I can think of no more guaranteed way of becoming a "legacy"
(in all the negative senses) operation than to be using one of these
platforms for your business.
Can some one tell me why a business would *want* to be in the Information
Technology business in addition to making widgets, or selling insurance, or
whatever they did before there was all this whizzbang technology to play
with?
Stability does not imply lack of flexibility at all. IBM's mainframe OSes
now support things like Posix and Java for example. Any of the remaining
"proprietary" platforms can play all the same games that any of the current
"main stream" platforms can, and at the same time they can continue to run
all of your Legendary Applications as well.
Glenn wrote:
> There was a lot more to the speech - and some interesting discussions may
> come of it. What I wanted to point out is that Carly has once again done
> the despicable... but she went a step further (I believe). She failed to
> mention MPE/iX at a time when it was appropriate.
Again, I think it's clear that the people steering HP (or at least turning
the wheel, since it's not yet clear whether that wheel is attached to
anything or not) believe that they are out to Change The World (or at least
the stock price) and this plan involves promoting those of their children
whom they perceive as being the smart, good looking, intelligent ones, and
not the funny looking stepchild who sleeps in the cupboard under the stairs.
While there is a tempting desire to respond to this by sending Carly a
"howler" via Owl Post in the Wall Street Journal, it's questionable whether
this will accomplish anything positive. MPE will never be part of the
"popular crowd" in Carly's world, but there will always be that other world
where simplicity, stability, and reliability are valued over this week's
self-delusional fashion trend.
Writer Theodore Sturgeon once wrote that "90% of everything is crud" (and
this seems to be rather generous when applied to the computer industry).
Using this statement, anything which is popular or which has a significant
market share must therefore be crud. But it also says that there will
always be that 10% of available products that will not be crud, and that
there should also be 10% of customers who might actually want to buy
something that's not crud.
Bill and Dave's Hewlett-Packard was specifically in the business of making
that 10% of products and selling them to that 10% of customers, and the HP
3000 was one of those products and 3000-L represents that group of
customers.
G.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:02:45 -0400
From: Jeff Kell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: HPWorld Questions
Gavin Scott wrote:
>
> Courtland asks:
> > What was said of the status of IA64 for MPE? I don't know of an
> > official status report since 1998.
>
> Work would appear to be well underway on that project though
> obviously their focus at the moment is the N class stuff which is
> also a prerequisite for IA-64 since IA-64 will arrive first in the
> N boxes most likely.
AFAIK, the N-class and kindred are the *only* machines in either the
9000 or 3000 platform which will be "IA-64 ready". There are internal
bus, memory, and I/O issues unique to the IA-64 and related chipsets
that cannot be expanded to pre-N-class hardware without some form of
retrofit (which is unlikely).
But otherwise I agree completely, the N-class I/O system conversion
(which is actively underway in CSY) is certainly a pre-requisite. If we
look back at classic-to-RISC as an example, we can 'presume' (or at
least hope) that much of the bootup process will be shared by both the
3000 and 9000 platforms (essentially the same today up through ISL)
although there will very likely be a requirement for an OS fork between
PA-RISC and IA-64 (on both platforms). I would expect, like the
classics, that initially the bulk of MPE (and HP-UX) would be running in
PA-RISC mode (emulation?) or whatever equivalent on IA-64.
There is a proven basis for this especially with MPE, while this will be
somewhat of a first-pass effort for HP-UX (bearing mind that it was only
in recent years that HP-UX merged into a single code base, after dealing
with 680x0, Apollo, and PA-RISC issues and also workstation versus
server versions (9000/7xx and 9000/8xx).
But of course I'm only speculating :-)
Jeff Kell <[log in to unmask]>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:25:02 -0400
From: "Bruce A. Randall" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Search utility..
Re:
> I need to search for a particular string through certain files in a group
> and also need to find out the number of times the string occurs. I mean..
if
> I am looking for "WHAT" in [log in to unmask], I need to get a output like :
>
> Source1 - 2 occurences found
> Source2 - 10 Occurences found
> Source4 - 3 Occurences found.
<plug, plug, plug>
The DISCOVER/3000 Search Engine Analysis tool can do this AND
retain the last accessd date/time.
DISCOVER allows you to scan for up to 64 strings AND 64 excluded strings.
You can show the matches or not, and even extract the matched records to a
file. An example of a simple string search of some COBOL source to locate
calles to IMAGE follows:
<<<<< note:the string |db??? contains wild card characters | and ?
| indicates a space or punctuation and ? indicates a letter
Strings are not case sensitive
:discover
DISCOVER/3000 [1.24.2] Copyright 2000 Impact Digital Solutions, Inc.
Licensed to : AC Transit
=A4clear extract
EXTRACT path cleared. STRING SEARCH records will NOT be extracted.
=A4set display none
DISPLAY setting set to NONE
--WARNING-- Matched records will NOT be displayed
=A4define string |db???
1 Search STRINGS defined
=A4string search files @.src
** Warning ** Records will NOT be extracted, EXTRACT path is blank
String Searching MPE files in @.SRC.EIS WED, SEP 27, 2000 5:07 PM
--WARNING-- DISPLAY-NONE is set, you may not see any displays
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
90 files scanned for search STRINGs
36 files contain one or more search STRINGS
2 files skipped, empty file
5 files skipped, not selected file code
*************************************************************************
97 MPE files processed in this STRING SEARCH
**** Save STRING SEARCH Summary Listing in (SLIST.EIS) as
STRING SEARCH Summary Listing NOT saved, still a temp file SUMLIST
36 located files listed in temporary file PROGLIST
=A4print proglist
WED, SEP 27, 2000 5:07 PM
AP004.SRC.EIS 11
AP005.SRC.EIS 8
CLIBS.SRC.EIS 347
CLM001.SRC.EIS 33
CLM002.SRC.EIS 3
CLM003.SRC.EIS 1
CLM004.SRC.EIS 3
CLM005.SRC.EIS 3
CLM006.SRC.EIS 5
CLM007.SRC.EIS 1
CLM008.SRC.EIS 1
CLM009.SRC.EIS 54
CLM013.SRC.EIS 1
COPYLIB.SRC.EIS 347
COPYLIBS.SRC.EIS 278
CS018SOL.SRC.EIS 41
CS019.SRC.EIS 33
CS030.SRC.EIS 18
CS031.SRC.EIS 13
CS032.SRC.EIS 7
CS033.SRC.EIS 7
CS033E.SRC.EIS 7
CS033O.SRC.EIS 7
CS034.SRC.EIS 11
CS034O.SRC.EIS 11
CS036.SRC.EIS 5
CS254.SRC.EIS 11
CS256.SRC.EIS 11
CSCROSS.SRC.EIS 3
FFF.SRC.EIS 347
MM002.SRC.EIS 51
TRAPC.SRC.EIS 1
WF001.SRC.EIS 58
WF060.SRC.EIS 18
WF071.SRC.EIS 57
WF073LST.SRC.EIS 82
=A4
-------------------------------------------------
When it comes to string searching, you can't beat DISCOVER/3000. It can
also scan output spool files and QEDIT compressed files, AND you can enter
MPEX commands just by preceding them with a %.
For more info, please go to www.idswest.com and/or email me at
[log in to unmask]
See the Shawn Gordon review at http://www.3kworld.com/newsroom.asp?
appmode=3DitemDetail&news_pk=3D2464
Bruce A. Randall
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:56:15 -0700
From: Stan Sieler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Search utility..
Re:
> The DISCOVER/3000 Search Engine Analysis tool can do this AND
> retain the last accessd date/time.
As I mentioned when you asked us how to do that, you need to be sure
you retain the state_change time, otherwise you'll cause problems.
(MAGNET's restored file dates for over five years, and MPEX has
done likewise (I think)).
Also, if you're using the AIF's to do it, be sure to check if you're
on MPE/iX 5.0 or later. (MAGNET does that, because it runs on any
release from 2.0 (or earlier?) to the present.)
> When it comes to string searching, you can't beat DISCOVER/3000. It can
oh? A couple of vendors and authors of other products/tools
might disagree :)
Stan Sieler [log in to unmask]
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:36:14 -0400
From: Paul Courry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:31:49 -0700, Donna Garverick wrote:
>Duane Percox wrote:
>
>> 6. I think our energy and $$ can be more wisely spent developing
>> new systems and solutions for our favorite platform. Let CSY
>> fight the battle internal at HP for mindshare. Besides,
>> I'm beginning to tire of all this negative talk. Its beginning to
>> appear like a bunch of little kids jumping up and down whining that
>> they aren't getting what they want.
>
>ah 'whining' :-)
>
>for the 10 people who already heard me say this during sig sysman :-) i
>apologize for saying this again....
>
>as a whole, hp3000-l has whining down to an art. we take every deserved
>and undeserved opportunity to jump allover hp. i fully admit that at times
>hp should be 'taken to the shed' but it doesn't detract from my point --
>that we do very little other than whine.
>
Donna,
I've contributed Windows versions of Vesoft's help files (see Lund website
for download), I'm betaing
the network health command file and realtime predictive support. I'll gladly
code if HP will release the
source for something I think is important. I'm a foot soldier, where are the
generals?
Paul Courry
BTW this is not directed at you......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:55:38 EDT
From: Cecile Chi <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Thanks for the VESoft help files! When you first announced them, I told one
of my clients, and had them download the files and put them on their
internal
network for the MIS department. We all appreciate your work.
Cecile Chi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:03:32 EDT
From: Wirt Atmar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Carly Fiorina speak again...
Craig writes:
> > You know John the Baptist is generally portrayed as being a little
wacko,
> > don't you? (I mean literally. He wasn't said to be the sanest guy on
the
> > block).
>
> If we dig a little deeper, there may be something of worth to find here.
> John's sanity depended largely on who you asked. John was quite popular
with
> the general masses. They were eager to hear what he had to say and found
him
> compelling. John's sanity was never in question by this group.
>
> On the other hand, he was quite unpopular with people who held positions
of
> common authority. This was mostly because he was honest in publicly
> proclaiming the hypocrisy of some of these leaders and forcefully
demanding
> that they "walk the talk." Because he had the audacity to publicly
criticize
> these leaders, eventually to his own detriment, it would not be
unthinkable
> that those leaders assumed that he must be working with less than a full
> deck.
>
> Of course, John was motivated by working for a higher cause, and wasn't
> particularly concerned with what the leaders thought of him.
Forget for a moment that the subject of this conversation is a religious
figure, the problem with prophets (especially those who are both adamant and
charismatic) is that it's very difficult to tease apart those who are truly
holy from those who are merely wholly around the bend.
Everything that Craig writes above could be just as easily applied to David
Koresh -- or (to a lesser degree) Jim Jones*. Evangelists of any stripe are
a
notoriously difficult group to fathom. Computer evangelists are no
different.
A little rational skepticism goes a long ways -- and if people can't provide
good, clearly enunciated reasons for their support of their platform,
reasons
that make good business sense to the people who pay the bills, then all the
evangelism in the world won't make any difference at all in the end.
> Most prophets met a rather untimely end at the hands of the people who
were
> on the receiving end of their message. I guess it just shows that if
you're
> in the prophet business, you'd better have some pretty good life
insurance!
> :-)
That need of life insurance certainly proved true for Koresh and Jones. But
I
would tend to believe that their demise had a great deal to do with the
flim-flammery they were trying to sell. You can't maintain a sham forever.
I really do believe that the truth will set you free eventually (as promised
in John 8:32). While I clearly don't agree with everything DSilva writes,
what he wrote a few days ago, I couldn't agree more with what he wrote then:
"I think that we want computers that understand the English Language
and
can do what we want them to do without any mysteries or high learning curves
or silly syntax. Just our everyday words should be sufficient for the
computer to understand and carry on with the task"
This sentence would get "D" elevated to sainthood among the customers we
deal
with everyday. I just taught a 3-day class last week, in this instance to a
room full of Summit credit union users (although that was only by chance,
not
design). The people we deal with never go to HPWorlds nor to local user
group meetings. Indeed, once again, none of them had ever heard of Interex.
But everyone of them listed the reasons they have come to hold the HP3000 in
such high regard: simple English commands, extraordinary reliability, simple
database structure, and a system that's very easy to maintain. No one told
them to say these things. They simply came to these conclusions themselves.
Wirt Atmar
* In the end, Jim Jones had to keep his people within the compound in Guyana
with a shoot-to-kill order for the guards.
------------------------------
End of HP3000-L Digest - 26 Sep 2000 to 27 Sep 2000 (#2000-144)
***************************************************************
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