Really OT: In case anyone should wonder, I actually agree with most of what Joseph said below:
Just to answer some of his questions,
"> Who said so? These are certainly not the 14 year olds I know."
The reporting source was MSNBC from some study (there's always someone doing studies on something) done by people who do surveys of vocabulary levels [I do know for a fact that it was *not* the Johnson O'conner Foundation, but they might be able to tell me, and I will ask them the question shortly].
I'm glad you know some 14 year olds who are outside two deviations from the mean: My son, at 14, knew more than most University Professors (he also instantly understood the reference to Schroedinger's Election--as did Mr. Rego!).
Please understand that *most* of the 14 year olds I've encountered really do have a problem with understanding people with vocabularies above the 10,000 level.
More convincing would be for you to go to Radio Shack: "You have questions, we have blank stares".
And the other places where you can have fries with that.
"And what about school textbooks?
>What about them? They teach the same subjects with the same level of mediocrity that they always have.",
I was referring to the issue that school textbooks contain gross and unacceptable factual errors (as shown on "48 Hours").
So I'm not in total agreement that they have "the same level of mediocrity that they always have".
I suspect that the level of mediocrity has escalated (an interesting non-sequitor).
As for the comment:
"> Who will train the chimps? Obviously people older than 47"
I would suggest that perhaps we, at this forum, would be the ones to train the new generation of chimps, and I would support that, especially if Mr. Rosenblatt would join the bandwagon.
Mr. Wimar could start a trust fund for the materials for the training of the chimps and we could all volunteer our time.
This would pay off for those of us on the forum, since the chimps would make excellent MPE iX operators, once trained.
HP could get on the bandwagon too, and some how make a profit on our training the chimps.
Later on, the chimps would repay us by helping 14 year-olds build their vocabularies again.
As for "arrogant corporations", you'll get no disagreement from me there--I used to actually work on HP-UX and Oracle.
Of course, just being arrogant doesn't necessarily make them wrong--just makes them quite disagreeable to work with unless you have mastered the fine art of assertive incompetence (a formal subset of which is Political Correctness).
I prefer MPE iX, thanks. Nice folks, those people at CSY!
And it has occurred to me that arrogant people aren't just from "arrogant corporations".
Ah, the Suspicious Point of View: Always demanding facts and answers, hoping that *YOU* will accept less than facts and answers from them.
As for ">Thank your friends in corporate Amerika for that. They are the ones that "dumb down" entertainment. There are libraries of books and films that can be both entertaining and edifying.", those who have seen my postings in the past know very well that I have few, if any, friends in corporate America and soon that will take a steep downturn for the worse.
The very ones who "dumb down" entertainment contribute to PBS, the arts, and other worthy causes (the reson for which should be obvious to any who have read "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall).
As for having libraries of books and films that are entertaining and edifying, yes, certainly, there are--and they are growing smaller every day by throwing out the good stuff as opposed to the popular stuff. (I work in a building right across the street from the largest and best library in the City and I often take advantage of it. Interestingly enough, the original member of the library board was none other than the progressive Dick Judy, formerly the aid to the President of Boeing Computer Services).
People in corporate America aren't the only ones working hard to "dumb down" people, either--we have choices.
Then again, it isn't corporate America after all, is it? Corporations today are nations unto themselves spanning multinationally across the world, are they not. Many are actually more powerful than America, are they not? Able to thumb their nose at the Justice Department when they want to absorb smaller multinational companies, are they not? So is it really corporate America or not?
(I worked for one. You should hear their plans for invading--oops, sorry--doing business in China! We can bring them our business and our corporate culture!)
It is to the advantage for "American Corporations" to "dumb down" Americans: It makes us better customers--if we're stupid enough, we will buy their shoddy products! And be happy to do so! (My congratulations to the exceptions!)
Unfortunately I have to use the products of "American Corporations" because I have not yet found an alternative.
(Yet another advantage to living in Canada, eh?)
Dissenting views are always valuable for our education, and we should always be grateful for them--not that they change anything at all in any material way.
We now return you to our normal (genteel, polite, and affable) programming.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Rosenblatt wrote:
>>> "Joseph Rosenblatt" <[log in to unmask]> 12/06 10:57 AM >>>
Doug Becker wrote:
It's funny you should mention that.
In my discussion with the Manager for ATM Development for Bank of America
concerning ATM Voting, he mentioned to me that people do the most amazing
things with ATM cards.
Some put their ATM cards upside down.
>Wow! That truly is amazing because it's so hard to do.
Others use the AARP cards!
> I'll bet some people have even used their Shell card.
Still others can't figure out the whole "ATM Thing" at all.
> This proves that they must be stupid because they can figure out how to do
so many much more difficult things.
He believes that there is a certain segment of the population that "are
untrainable".
> This coming from an executive of one of the most arrogant corporations
ever to do business at the expense of the masses.
My personal view is that Americans are basically morons--perhaps imbecilles:
* The average vocabulary of a 14 year old in 1950 was 25,000; today, the
average 14 year old has a vocabulary of 10,000 words.
> Who said so? These are certainly not the 14 year olds I know.
At that rate, in only 33 more years, trained chimps will have a greater
vocabulary than any 14 year olds.
> Who will train the chimps? Obviously people older than 47.
Of course, with the media and entertainment centering vocabulary on a list
of about seven words--four letter and otherwise, this should not be
surprising.
>Thank your friends in corporate Amerika for that. They are the ones that
"dumb down" entertainment. There are libraries of books and films that can
be both entertaining and edifying.
And what about school textbooks?
>What about them? They teach the same subjects with the same level of
mediocrity that they always have.
A sixth grade teacher was asked recently where Perl Harbor was, and she
replied that she thought it was in one of the New England States.
> This teacher was obviously not one of the 14 year olds that knew 25,000
words in 1950. This teacher probably teaches in the school that Rush
Limbaugh's cousin's hairdresser's daughter's friend attends.
Anyone watch "Street Smarts" lately?
>No but I've never consider living a spectator sport.
So it's not just Florida anymore (shouldn't orange juice make you smarter?).
>Its certainly not just Florida a lot of other people cast there votes for
idiots as well.
When should I downgrade my view of Americans from imbecilles to total
idiots?
> Whenever you want.
Fortunately, there are a few intelligent people around left to talk
to--that's why I'm so greatful for the HP3000-L.
>On this we agree.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Darnell wrote:
>>> Dave Darnell <[log in to unmask]> 12/06 9:30 AM >>>
This might not be a viable solution for older Floridians.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Durand [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:08 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Laptop / Palmtop and the enter key
>
>
> If you are using Reflection, you should be able to just
> hit (ALT-Return) and that should do it. Granted it is hitting
> two keys (at once) rather than one key but this is how I have
> worked around it.
>
> At the last place I worked which was an Amisys site I ran into
> the same problem but for a different reason. Amisys does not use
> block mode screens but it does often require a good amount of
> number entry. Since it is easier to enter a significant amount of
> numerical data on the numeric keypad and just use that enter key
> as a <return> key, we set the enter key (on the numeric keypad)
> to be the <return> key on all terminals and PC's. When we did
> truly need to use the <enter> key for block mode screens
> (like NMMGR) we had to use the ALT-Return keystroke as I suggested
> above.
>
> HTH,
>
> Barry
>
> On 6 Dec 00, at 7:26, Doug Becker wrote:
>
> > *Someone* in the County has decided that they are going to
> use Laptops / =
> > Palmtops which do not have a numeric key pad and hence no enter key.
> >
> > We all know that the enter key next to the "/', is not
> truly and enter =
> > key--it is a return key (just kidding, sort of).
> >
> > This makes it very hard when using a terminal emulator to
> send things to a =
> > V-Plus generated screen (or does V-Plus have another name
> these days?).
> >
> > It's interesting the ScreenJet from Affirm / Milliware has
> a "smart" =
> > option for this kind of problem--but my management declared
> that we were =
> > *not* going to use the product.=20
> >
> > [It's always interesting that people in positions of power
> make technologic=
> > al decisions in areas about which they know
> nothing--nothing new, but =
> > interesting nonetheless.]
> >
> > My suggestion for a temporary workaround is to have
> Reflection remap the =
> > keys so the "enter" key is something like "scroll
> lock"--and that's such a =
> > handy key to reach for!
> >
> > Has anyone else had any experience with this, and if so,
> what did you do?
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Barry Durand [log in to unmask]
> Allegro Consultants 408.252.2330
> http://www.allegro.com/people/durand/index.html
> Opinions are mine, not my employer's
> ------------------------------------------
>
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