On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:02:05PM +0100, Richard Barker wrote:
> You guys just can't help yourselves can you.  I have never met anyone in the
> world that views Communism and Socialism is such an unreasonable irrational
> way as some people on this list.  I personally don't like Communism or
> extreme capitalism, but like any political system both have some merits.

There is no merit to communism. None whatsoever.

> Unfortunately historically Communism has failed because of dictators abusing
> the system, not purely because of the political ideal itself.

That it's always failed to achieve its objective whenever and wherever tried
should be a big fat clue that it's not possible.

> Socialism on the other hand has been very successful in Europe forming the
> basis of most governments and if your honest has a number of parallels
> with the American constitution.

How come European governments are backing away from it at every opportunity?

> It's actually quite hard to find a concise definition of Socialism, but from
> my point of view, it's principles of people being equal and that the wealth
> should be fairly distributed amongst the people are decent principles even
> if sometimes they are impractical and may seem unfair.

They are unfair as hell, because they constitute active disincentives to
work to make one's situation better.

> On the other hand you have the morally corrupt, yet perhaps, more practical
> ideal of capitalism, where the rich and successful are rewarded at the
> expense of the poor.

There is not a thing morally wrong with allowing people to keep what they
earn. There is a lot morally wrong to taking the fruits of my labor at
gunpoint to support someone who won't support himself. (Note I didn't say
"can't". Yes, there is a differnece, and yes, there is a large class of
people who can but won't. We've created a whole class of people dependent on
government handouts for a living; this helps nobody.)

> Hitler's policies and belief's don't really fit any previous political
> groupings as such.  He invented his own.

I'm not so sure...ISTR that Hitler's economic policies before he started
making war on the world were actually fairly socialistic, as long as you
were a white German.

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