Matt,

> Perhaps I'm just dense, or maybe behind a little in the
> reasoning, but I just can't see the point in an
> OpenMPE project based on an emulator.

I do see some point in the emulator (MPE-em?) but for the most part I expect
that a lot of users feel as you do.   This is why I think we need to split
the discussion between OpenMPE PA-RISC and OPenMPE next generation.

Cortlandt Wilson
(650) 966-8555

-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of Matt Shade
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 12:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] A possible roadmap to Open MPE


Folks,

<To preface this, I just want to say that I'm trying to find answers for my
own peace of mind. I hate sounding like an old stick in the mud, but I've
been having problems coming to grips with reason behind the cause. I'm also
sure I'll get flamed big time for this, but I need to get this off my
chest.>

Perhaps I'm just dense, or maybe behind a little in the reasoning, but I
just can't see the point in an OpenMPE project based on an emulator. Unless
it was purely for a teaching tool, or a hobby, or a toy. I don't see an
emulator running on top of another OS (linux) running a company's business.

I keep picturing some MIS director who's been sweating for a couple years,
wondering how to migrate all his financial and manufacturing apps off his
HP3000s, saying "Whew! Thank god! Now I can just buy a couple high-end PCs,
load up linux, and then install MPE on top of them, and I won't have to
migrate to a new OS and I can keep my job!"

Yes, that's probably a ludicrous example, but I'm not sure why there would
be an OpenMPE if not for those cases. Otherwise, what's the point?

I understand everyone would love to see MPE survive. I love it too, and wish
HP hadn't decided to drop it. I think an OpenMPE would be cool, and I have
every intention of supporting the project however I am able. But I don't see
it being used for many things, or by many people. I've seen some numbers
posted, 10,000 current supported customers, and 20% wishing MPE would
continue on. I don't have any idea how to interpret those numbers with
regards to the number of users/machine, or the types of apps running on
them. But I can't see how, for example, a company could honestly justify
moving from an HP3000 with 300 users to a PC (or Sun box, or HP9000, or
whatever) running an MPE emulator on top of linux.

HP has had a hard enough time expanding or even keeping it's HP3000 customer
base. So what makes anyone think that creating an MPE emulator will change
that? Or is that even the reason behind OpenMPE? Is the reason just because
WE love MPE so much and don't want to see it just fade away? Are we hoping
some underground movement will catch on, and soon every linux distribution
will include an MPE emulator? (I KNOW that's not the case, but again, I'm
just trying to get a feel for it)

With regards to the feasibility of an emulator, most of you have seen what I
wrote in reply to Wirt's proposed roadmap for OpenMPE. I saw responses that
suggested an emulator could be just as robust. My example of VMWare was used
(and for the record, I know that VMWare is not beta NOW, considering it's at
a version 3.0 level. I was talking about the pre-v1.0 beta), and I agree, it
runs Windows beautifully on a linux box, and vice versa. But, IMHO, the
amount of performance that would be sacrificed would make the reason for
having MPE in the first place go away.

Some people have said that the proprietary hardware is exactly what we want
to get away from, hence an emulator on top of an OS that runs on multiple
hardware platforms. Again, you're sacrificing speed (regardless of the fact
that processors and memory are getting cheaper and faster) and reliability
for convenience and portability. While I'm all for portability, I wouldn't
see that option as a reason to keep my enterprise applications on MPE.

Why do we like MPE anyway? Stability - OpenMPE's reliability and stability
would now stand on the underlying OS and the emulator's interaction with
that OS. Performance - just removing MPE from the HP3000 already decreases
that, but then placing another layer between MPE and the hardware drops it
even further. Image - from what I understand, that's already available on
other platforms (Eloquence? I honestly don't know).

I'm sure an emulator could be created. I'm sure it could handle all those
things everyone likes about MPE, like file equations, build, image, etc. But
then what? Advertise it? "You loved MPE...NOw get the next to next best
thing!" I see a FEW people wanting to run it, but not the multitudes that
some people feel there will be in order to fund and support it.

Again, maybe I'm just missing something and need some handlholding to be
able to understand it all. I don't want to sound like I'm against anything.
In fact, I'd support whatever comes out of all this.

matt shade

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