Eric Schubert <[log in to unmask]> said:
 
>I too, dribble on searching for answers...been hangn' around Alfredo too
>long :-)
 
That's the whole idea:  To search for answers.  I certainly don't know the
answers.  Hopefully, all of us together have a better chance of converging
on the right answers.
 
 
>Up front I want to apologize if this upsets any hard working 3k lab person,
>for you do wonderful things with the direction and resources given. - Eric
 
Without any question.  These issues go way ABOVE the hard-working 3k lab people.
 
 
 
[   Snip (you can read Eric's original posting yourself :-)   ]
 
 
 
 
>Take a look at the December HP Journal.  This wasn't just about the DCE.
>This was about the DCE, HP-UX and how HP Corporate is reengineering how they
>do internal business.  The Corporate HP 3000's were mentioned in past tense
>of legacy systems, i.e., how things used to work and why that model of
>"distributed" computing (based upon VPLS terminal screen data entry & FTP &
>batch processing) doesn't work any more for the 90's global enterprise (I
>hope this didn't surprise anyone).
>
>Check it yourself, Reference:
>
>'Adopting <the> DCE Technology for Developing Client/Server Applications'
> December 1995 Hewlett-Packard Journal.
 
Does anyone mention MPE's robust file system versus Unix's flukey file system?
This is not my opinion, by the way.  No lesser an authority than Oracle
insists on TOTALLY BYPASSING UNIX'S FILE SYSTEM.  IMAGE, on the other hand,
has been tightly coordinated with MPE's file system and transaction manager
for years.
 
The strength of the HP3000, of MPE/iX, and of IMAGE (in all its flavors:
TurboIMAGE or IMAGE/SQL) is, precisely, the strength of their
tightly-integrated file system and transaction management.  This keeps bits
ON or OFF (according to YOUR organization's needs) and makes sure that bits
that should be ON remain indeed ON and bits that should be OFF remain
indeed OFF.  Everything else that you do with your bits (whether you
package them into TCP/IP datagrams to send them around the world or use
their information to build pixels for pretty pictures on a screen or on a
PostScript printer), becomes irrelevant if such bits are mush (due to an
unreliable file system).
 
It's this HP3000 strength that we cannot let go to waste.  Let's not forget
it while discussing telecommunications and graphical user interfaces.
 
 
 
>>>Is there a
>>>synergy here? If so, why hide it?
>>>--
>>>Israel Frankel
>
>
>You hide it if you believe the 3k represents everything that doesn't work
>for your global enterprise-wide solutions (my opinion, this can also be
>rooted into 3k vendor pricing schemes - not mentioned). And your only
>Corporate vision for 3k is to string it along within niche markets.  Is this
>vision Un*x dogma driven?  Or is it the 3k customer?  Or simply the 3k
>profit margin cannot support any proactive risk taking?  Mmm.  More questions.
 
Yes, indeed, Eric: More questions!
 
 
 
>Remember that phrase "actions speak louder than words?"  Oh, how surprised
>CSY was that the 3k wasn't getting attention?  I say, Bah! They know what
>they are doing.  They roll out a full suite of the DCE (core services, DFS,
>Encina) for the 9k.  Advertise the DCE - devote a full journal to it and
>reengineer the HP enterprise with the DCE and HP-UX?  It's hot!  Something
>to talk about! (Are they not embarrassed to still sell TAC cards to 3k
>customers for Telnet at the same time?)
>
>That Corporate vision (which claims to be a reflection of the 3k customer)
>always places the 3k customer in a position of watching other platform's
>jump ahead (like the 9k and countless others brands) as the 3k struggles
>with issues solved 10 years ago by other OS platforms (I can finally get the
>IP address of a VT session with a patch on 5.0! What progress!)
 
We definitely need more progress than this.  Quite embarrasing, indeed.
 
 
 
>The 3k customer must start to recognize an enterprise-wide solution when
>they see it and demand it on the 3k.  I haven't seen Alfredo champion IMAGE
>under the DCE/RPC as an enterprise-wide solution.  Let's see code up on Jazz
>showing 3k threads programming examples.  INTEREX had a 3k/9k DCE demo.  How
>about  DCE configurations, case tools for the DCE/RPC,  outlines of internal
>HP successes.
 
Ok, Ok, Eric:  But I do HAVE to sleep  :-)
 
Besides, my specialty is to provide tender loving care for bits WHILE they
reside within a database (by choice: this is easy compared to what happens
to the bits BEFORE they enter the database and AFTER they leave the
database).  I do the pretty-bit stuff and the TCP/IP stuff as a hobby and,
so, am hopelessly behind leaders such as yourself.  (Hey, Eric and other
DCE pioneers: Besides being a veiled compliment, this is a blunt hint :-)
 
 
 
 
>In HP's favor, I've seen signs of these trends reversing in the last few
>years (slowly), mostly through the narrow portals of the Well Behaved in
>Unix Team (term now expired) and newer teams (I hope the recent rush of
>members to Netscape doesn't mean anything but a better offer.)  It's the HP
>CUSTOMER that will make or break this system.  So, use your online
>connections and go after information.  Read up on what is happening in
>enterprise-wide computing, demand good solutions.  Demand development
>equality schedules with HP-UX (don't wait 4 years for trickle down for it to
>happen.)
>
>* Above all, don't champion non-change as a virtue. *
 
Well said, Eric.  Things MUST change.  And proactively so.  SIGIMAGE has
set an example in this respect.  We just wish there could be MORE changes
and we wish we could see the results MORE quickly.  I believe we have not
gone as far as DEMANDING.  So, I was intrigued by your use of this strong
word.  I wonder how the other thousands of users out there feel about it:
"demanding" as opposed to "asking for a favor".
 
 
 
 
>Thank you all.
 
Thank you, Eric.  There is a lot of research, development, and attention to
details (as well as to long-term strategies) in your message.  Everyone in
the HP3000 community will benefit from struggling with the fundamental
questions that you ask.
 
 
Let's hear more from more people!  After all, Eric has to sleep too :-)
 
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|    d          |  Adager Corporation
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