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I would like to take a few seconds and explain the reasoning behind my
earlier message on this thread.  If you remember yesterday, I answered,
rather tersely, "run far, run fast. . ." away from DOS applications on NT
(or even 95/98.)

When Roy compares buying DOS applications to buying MPE applications, he is
very incorrect.  A more proper comparison would be buying a (probably)
PM-based application developed on MPE V/R, running in batch, and trying to
use this on your brand new 997.

Many people are under the mistaken impression to NT is built from or even
on DOS.  This is totally incorrect.  NT is NT, and is derived from VMS, not
DOS.  NT does handle many DOS programs, through a DOS emulator, but it
fails to run them properly as often as not.  If your DOS program, in any
way, tries to access the hardware, NT will reject it, hard.

If you DOS program works on NT, it will not be able to take advantage of
long file names, or most of the features of NT, such has multi-threading
and services.  The NT system will not be affected by the DOS program, as
long as this program does not replace critical components of NT.  I have
found that most of the time, the reason programs were not moved from DOS to
NT is because the program wants to do something NT will not allow or the
source code was lost.

The situation is less critical on Windows 95/98 as these OS's were built
from DOS and allow DOS to have full access to the machine.  Actually this
was one of the goals of Windows 95, allow DOS programs to run.  On Windows
95/98 DOS applications run single threaded and can still take over the
whole machine in a runaway situation.  DOS is not a pre-emptive
multitasking environment.

Overall, applications built for NT are more reliable than DOS versions, and
they have the added benefit that they can run nicely on Windows 95/98,
unless they depend on NT-specific things.  If the NT application also has a
GUI, so much the better for the user.

Kind regards,

Denys. . .

Denys Beauchemin
HICOMP America, Inc.
(800) 323-8863  (281) 288-7438         Fax: (281) 355-6879
denys at hicomp.com                             www.hicomp.com


-----Original Message-----
From:   Roy Brown [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent:   Friday, 04 December, 1998 7:16 AM
To:     [log in to unmask]
Subject:        Re: OFF TOPIC: Windows VS DOS Apps

In article <[log in to unmask]>,
Therm-O-Link <[log in to unmask]> writes
>Hello fellow listers!
>
>We have a sister corporation that I provide IT oversight for that is
>looking for a trucking application (handles dispatching of truck loads).
>Since I could not find anything like this on the HP3000, the trucking
>company manager is looking at some PC-based applications.  He had one
>application demo'd on Tuesday and invited me to see it.  It was plain
>from the start that the application was *not* Windows-based, and when
>I asked the salesman, he confirmed that it was DOS-based, but "it runs
>fine on Windows 95/98/NT".
>
>My gut-level reaction was that we should not buy any application that
>is supposed to run on a server and is DOS-based.  Is there any basis
>for my feeling, other than FUD?  IOW, what do you think about buying
>DOS-based apps at this stage of the PC's development?

The same as I think about buying HP3000-based apps at this stage of the
computer market's development. I can just envisage our potential clients
posting this same question, with those couple changes, on other app ngs.
So please excuse me if that rather colours things for me :-)

Yes, they (HP3000 or DOS apps) are going to look a bit clunky, but they
are likely to be more solid, reliable, and efficient, than wizzy-dizzy
GUI apps.

Of course, there will be a learning curve on this unfamiliar platform
(MPE/iX or DOS), but if the application functionality is there, this may
be smaller than mastering a less-able app on a more familiar platform.

Technically, there's nothing wrong with DOS apps on WIN; they just use a
smaller subset of the OS' capabilities, that's all.

Bottom line is: Does this app do the job? The rider to that is: better'n
anything else your sister corp can get for the task?

Of course, you might need to ask the salesman if there is any risk in
his company going out of business because people want a GUI front end
more than they want solid app capability....

...and as a corollary, why it isn't a WIN app? How hard could it be to
port it, and why haven't they?....

.... and you might want to put DOS into black-on-white mode, so it looks
more like just another WIN app, but without pretty fonts and buttons...

....and unless DOS boxes can buy into Windows printer drivers (???),
printer compatibility might be an issue; can the app drive your
printers?

Other issues are mouse (you can use it for navigation, but can't click
on things) cut'n'paste (doable).. minimise/maximise (yes)... run other
apps alongside..... what else?

Do you need multi-user? Will you miss not having OLE, or ODBC, on it any
time soon?

(There are HP3000/HP9000 analogues of these questions of course).


I had a user who was really genned-up on (and lightning fast in) DOS
Lotus 1-2-3, Reflection, and WordPerfect. He thought Windows was the
greatest thing ever. Not because he wanted the WIN versions of those
products (he didn't). But because Windows let him start all three, and
switch between them, more easily than anything he'd ever used for that
before.

Just think of the Transport app as running on a rather capable task
switcher.

Not to say that when all is said and done, things won't stack up against
the DOS app after all, but fight that FUD. For all our sakes :-)
--
Roy Brown               Phone : (01684) 291710     Fax : (01684) 291712
Affirm Ltd              Email : [log in to unmask]
The Great Barn, Mill St 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not
TEWKESBURY GL20 5SB (UK) know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.'