Jay Leno (and other comedians) loves to joke about terrorists who have poor
living conditions, no hope in life, and the promise of "a hundred virgins"
waiting for them upon martydom, so why wouldn't they do suicide?  There may
be alot of truth to it.

John Lee



At 09:58 AM 10/18/04 +0200, Christian Lheureux wrote:
>James B. Byrne wrote after Brice Yokem :
>
>> On 15 Oct 2004 at 13:47, Brice Yokem wrote:
>>
>> > The larger problem is education.  Most college graduates do not
>> > wish to be suicide bombers.
>
>Common sense tells us this HAS to be true. Common sense or statistics.
>They both may lead us in to blatant false assertions.
>
>> What is your source for this assertion?  Several systematic
>> inquiries into the psychological profiles of suicide bombers
>> have exploded the myth of the suicide bomber as uneducated
>> malcontent together with its denigrating implications.
>
>In France, we've had more than our share of Terrorism, either homegrown
>(Action Directe) or under foreign influence (Islamic terrorism since the
>mid-80s). Each time, it was revealed that the perpetrators had an above
>average education level. Frankly, I see no reason to think of my country
>as an exception, at least on that count. The same was revealed about the
>German Red Army Fraction and the Italian Red Brigades in the mid-70s.
>And, last but not least, the 9/11 terrorists had all undergone
>sufficient training to fly an airliner.
>
>Hmmmm ..... Seems simple facts support James' assertion.
>
>> For example, research conducted at Princeton indicates that in
>> Palestine where 30% of the population live in abject poverty
>> only 15% of suicide bombers came from this group.  And whereas
>> only 15% of the general population of Palestine ever enters
>> higher studies (college or university) over 50% of suicide
>> bomber have.
>
>Wouldn't it be nice to study WHY they choose to do so, assuming nobody
>forces them ?
>
>> Further research conducted in Israel indicates that these people
>> are far less likely than the general population to suffer from
>> depression, mood disorders, alcoholism, addiction, or have ever
>> attempted suicide.  To put it plainly, by every standard medical
>> measure they are above average in stability and sanity.
>
>Obvious deduction : these people do not attempt suicide bombing out of
>alcoholism or some kind of drug dependency. Second obvious deduction :
>they do not attempt it to "reproduce" some kind of "high".
>
>> So we have a group of people that self-select to immolate
>> themselves and kill a number of bystanders.  They come from
>> better than average economic backgrounds, they have better than
>> average education, they are more stable on average than the
>> general population and more intelligent.  So why do they do what
>> they do? An interesting question.
>
>See above ..... GMTA !
>
>> What they nearly all share is a traumatic event, usually in
>> childhood, usually the death of a close family member, often the
>> mother, almost always caused by officially approved measures
>> taken by the governments whose citizens they are striking
>> against.
>
>Hey, some of these kids or young adults have never seen their dad work,
>have never seen their granddad or any other family member with a stable
>job, have never had a place to call home, have never had a flirt at the
>local disco, have never had a football team or anything. So, after
>they've exhausted all other ways to enhancing their self-esteem, what do
>they have left ?
>
>I'm not trying to justify anything, in particular what's not
>justifiable. I'm just trying to understand the other person's mind.
>
>> In short, terrorists are made and they are made in a particular
>> fashion with a specific focus of their unhappiness.  They do not
>> grow in poverty or in ignorance.  They are quite rational and
>> reasonably well educated and, drawing from the inarguable basis
>> of their own experiences, they ultimately arrive at the
>> conclusion that there are no other practical remedies available
>> to them.  Without hope of meaningful political change or belief
>> in a better future for themselves and those that they care for,
>> they sacrifice themselves for their people.
>
>Did it dawn on anyone that, during the heydays of the Oslo Peace Process
>10 years ago, especially before Rabin was killed, suicide bombing was
>almost unheard of ?
>
>> The abysmal ignorance of these matters displayed in your
>> pontifically delivered prejudice is quite breath taking.  Do you
>> never exert yourself to become informed about anything before
>> pronouncing on it?
>
>I'm not sure that blasting the other person will achieve anything
>significant in understanding ..... Sigh ....
>
>> Does it not cross your mind that given the significance of the
>> issue that systematic and rigorously controlled studies are
>> conducted into this type of behaviour on a regular basis and
>> that results of these studies are readily available to those
>> with enough energy to look?  Does it never enter your head that
>> complex problems are unlikely to prove tractable to the type of
>> unreflexive and shallow opinion that you frequently express?
>> Can you not contemplate that perhaps the intellectual laziness
>> you evidence lies at the root of most of the difficulties that
>> west has created for itself in dealing with non-european
>> cultures?
>
>AFAIK, Israeli scientists have as good a reputation for scientific rigor
>as any other scientists. While I have not read the details of the study,
>I'm ready to believe it has been done on serious bases. In other words,
>I'm ready to trust its results.
>
>> H.L. Mencken said it best: For every question there is an answer
>> that is obvious, simple, and wrong.
>
>I don't know who that H. L. Mencken is, but I like the recipe for
>oversimplification !
>
>Christian Lheureux
>"All we need is some understanding"
>
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