In 'normal' times, ie no topic like Sep 11 hovering behind every discussion,
if anybody criticizes another country in a generic fashion, nobody takes
much notice - they shrug it off as 'everybody thinks their way of doing it
is best because they are comfortable with it' and so on.
Now we have Sep 11 with us, Dubya talking of changing Iraq for the better,
columnists writing stuff like ' if we opened our borders, the whole world
would emigrate here, therefore they hate us because they are jealous' and
'we have democracy, free trade, and freedom, so we are the best', all sorts
of stuff comes out of the woodwork, much of it irrational.

Picking up a couple of these items that invite criticism, that have nothing
to do with Sep11 or what may have caused it, I would like to point out a
couple of things.
1. Free trade - nice idea, but whose version? With the EU, under WTO rules,
about to slug US for several billion for subsidies, and the recent Farm bill
screwing the farmers of many friendly countries, the US version doesn't look
very attractive. Some are worse (Japan, 60%), many are better (NZ, 4%, Oz
25%).

2. Democracy - what % of eligible voters did so in 2000? With compulsory
voting, Oz gets a 98% turnout in general elections. And as for Florida - I
read yesterday (NYT) that some of the problems with the new machines were
due to some polling staff not being able to ---- READ! Gimme a break! What
day of the week are elections held - a working day? Gimme another break!

These are basically details, not structural or fundamental criticisms. I
know its easy to criticize from outside, probably without all the facts, but
that's what it looks like from outside.

jp

-----Original Message-----
From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of Greg Chaplin
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] OT: Sept. 11th, 2001


Richard,

You committed the heinous crime of "expressing perhaps another view point
other than the stereotype American one". Americans are VERY sensitive
about anything slightly critical of the good ol' US of A, and often condemn
such "critics" as one of, or combination of: ignorant, "commies", socialists
(as though that's a nasty horrible thing!), jealous, "lefties", etc.

If anyone doubts the veracity of my observation, just read the responses
to Richard's email.

I expect that I'll cop an earful (screenful?) for this, but I'm used to the
standard knee-jerk reactions that I'm likely to get. Oh well, there may be
the odd, well-reasoned, thoughtful response, so I won't hit <DEL> to all
of them.

The words of "Imagine" are particularly appropriate to this topic. But then,
John Lennon was a leftist anarchist hippie commie...

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

I live in hope that my children will see a nicer world.
Greg.

>>> Richard Barker <[log in to unmask]> 18/09/02 2:16:48 >>>
Hi

Some people are very sensitive.

Why when I thought I wrote a fairly acceptable Email, expressing perhaps
another view point other than the stereotype American one, do I receive some
ridiculous response like this.

>And, it is the only nation in history that, in time of war, has had the
>means to conquer anyone and everyone, and then, did not use it. After WWII,
>we could pretty much have made British Imperialism seem like a dress
>rehearsal, walked into any and every capital city, and set our own
policies.
>Don't like it? This bomb's for you. Cities proved easy enough to rebuild.

So are you advocating that America could have blown up the world if it
wanted to.  Yes that's mature, what does that have to do with anything.  By
the way, even if you ignore the stupidity of the suggestion, there probably
wasn't enough material around to make enough bombs and it would hardly have
been very constructive.

You mention British Imperialism, just because your patriotic and seem to be
offended by the slightest criticism of your country, don't assume that I
feel the same way.  I would probably agree with lots of criticisms of
Britain and it's history, I wouldn't see it as offensive, unless it was
particularly inaccurate and racist.

<snip remainder>

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