Denys suggested the following links :

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/01/3
> 1/wally31.xml&
> sSheet=/news/2003/01/31/ixnewstop.html

This one is more about the economic woes in various European countries (sigh
... that includes mine ...) than anything else. True enough, the German
Economic Miracle of the 50s did not extend into the 21st Century. The
reasons may be very diverse. The article sums that up without much detail.

France is in an economic shambles too. It may be for lack of political
courage by leaders, it may be for lack of enthusiasm from entrepreneurs, it
may be for as many reasons as there are Frenchmen and women. In contrast,
Spain is (as the article correctly says) enjoying an economic expansion
unprecedented in the recent history of that country. That is good for Spain,
and that is good for the rest of Europe too, which exports to Spain.

> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/10/opinion/10SAFI.html

I have not read that one yet. I need to create an id before.

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-573483,00.html

That one mostly describes a German local issue, with two politicos
squabbling at each other. I suppose it happens all the time in Germany as it
does in France, as it probably does in any healthy democracy. The good thing
about democracy is precisely that : politicians (and other citizens, too)
are allowed to squabble at each other, and they are not punished for that.
Hmmmm .... reminds me of an earlier period in the Bush Administration when
there were clearly delineated clans, with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and,
to some extent, Rice as the hard-liners, and Powell and others pursuing a
softer line. The presidential message got so blurred that Dubya himself had
to call his troops to order. No different that what Schröder had to do.

In other words, I see Europe as a vastly diverse region, as diverse as its
populations, and bound to be even more diverse as EU membership increases.
In that respect of diversity, Europe shares a lot with the USA. Another
common point is that Europeans, like most Americans, tend to accept and
respect each other's point of view.

Am I offended ? Certainly not ! Without a vast diversity of opinions, there
would be nothing to discuss, and life would not be as much fun. Gee, I can't
tell how much I enjoy these OT threads !

"Boredom was borne one day out of uniformity" (Antoine Houdar de la Motte,
French philosopher, early 18th century)

"I do not agree with you, but I'll fight till the end to allow you to
express your point of view" (Voltaire, 18th century)

That being said, I stand by my position : I am opposed to war as long as
another option exists. As a principle and because, in the case of Irak, it
won't solve anything long-term and may even worsen an already derelict
Middle East situation. Yes, it will certainly remove Saddam. Yes, Saddam may
be guilty of just about EVERYTHING the USA accuses him. But I can't figure
out how hurting kids, women and men can enhance the West's standing in the
Arab world. Now that doesn't make Saddam an innocent man, and we should
certainly not leave him alone. But I strongly advocate other ways. In his
quest to rid the world of Saddam the born-again Muslim, Bush the born-again
Christian should adhere to the Commendment that said "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Think of this :

"The next time they need someone, they may be looking at you" (Bruce
Springsteen, 1985)
"War is good for absolutely nothing" (Edwin Starr, 1970)

Next installment in a moment ...

Christian

> Denys
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HP-3000 Systems Discussion
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> Christian Lheureux
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:37 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: OT: Terry Jones (from Monty Python) on War
>
> Yosef worked for peace :
>
> [stuff snipped ...]
>
> > I do not advocate
> > violence in any
> > form, against any person, at any time, for any reason.
>
> Neither do I. That's precisely why I spoke out against going to war if
> another solution exists.
>
> [More stuff snipped ...]
>
> > Wirt also pined: But beyond that, I have never felt so out of
> > touch with the
> > American public. Hang in there, Wirt. You are in touch with
> > more of us than
> > you know.  I think our numbers are growing daily.
>
> I'd even suggest that the only one who's getting out of touch with the
> American public, or a larger and larger share of it every
> day, and further
> off every day, is Dubya himself. And perhaps a few members of the
> Administration.
>
> Christian
>
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