Hi Jeff :) & Greg & All Interex Board of Director Members

    Ok.. Greg used to be an employee of HP  (working out of the Tigard, Or
office) in the past I don't know if he is now or not....

   He was then, and appears now to think that the common user's were not
able to grasp the big picture and therefore should be told what to do and
think when it came to Interex's policies and procedures... We asked him not
to return.

  I also notice that Greg appears to be speaking on behalf of Interex, yet
is not using an Interex tagline or domain name... Denys... Are these the
opinions of Interex?  or are they the opinions of someone who works for
Interex ?

 Art "Offended by Greg Cagle and therefore by Interex!" Bahrs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Woods" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [HP3000-L] HP WORLD 2000: $20K to $25K for a speaker?!?!?!?!


> Hello, Mr. Cagle.
>
> You probably won't like what I have to say, but that's fine with me.  I
> didn't much like what you had to say either.
>
> On the other hand, I wish to apologize in advance to the teeming masses
> that will receive this rant, but some of the ramifications of this
> discussion impact everyone with an interest in MPE.  Speaking out in
> support of Stan's position is part of it, but I think the implications
> regarding Interex and other things is significant enough to warrant
> it.  Just one man's opinion, but it's mine.
>
> At  09:55 PM 8/16/00, Greg Cagle replied to Stan's reply to Mr. Cagle's
> reply to Stan's (appropriate, IMNSHO!) criticism:
> >You forgot the IMHO in that paragraph.
>
> At best, he forgot "IMO".  I'd almost be offended if Stan said "IMHO"
> except I believe his humility exceeds his value.  On the other hand, 'm
> still wondering just who this Greg Cagle fellow is.
>
> > > > > Who's having a power-trip ("I/we must be important, we've got
> > > > > a big name speaker)?
>
> I think perhaps you got your answer, Stan.
>
> > > > HP World is an industry-leading conference. This is par for the
> > > > course. No power trip involved, just competitive reality. Perhaps
> > > > you remember Scott Adams, one of our previous keynotes. Why don't
> > > > you go check HIS rates and then get back to us.
>
> It would surely be wonderful if there were an USER'S group that cared (at
> all levels:  I know there are a few Interex folks who do!) about one
> particular "industry-leading" platform with a TLA (Three Letter Acronym)
> name.  I vaguely remember a truly useful user's group that took interst in
> MPE; as I recall, it was called HPIUG, Hewlett-Packard International Users
> Group.  Don't know what happened to it, but seems to have been lost over
> the years; a lot like my naivety.
>
> > > Uh, I realize you're somewhat of a newcomer to the HP 3000
> > > community ... but I did complain about Scott Adams, too.
> >
> >I do not claim to be a member of the 3000 community. I am a member
> >of the HP community, and of the Interex community.
>
> Noted.  If you're fortunate, you'll correct that one of these days.
>
> > > I enjoy Adams' work, and was on his mailing list since the early
> > > days.  I've gone to free talks that he's done.  But...that doesn't
> > > mean that I did (or do) condone Interex paying him a lot of
> > > money to speak to us!
> >
> >One person's opinion.
>
> One very well respected (for good reason!) person's opinion.  BTW, Greg
> (You don't mind if I call you Greg, do you?), who did you say you are
again?
>
> > > > > Does Interex *really* think that hundreds of extra *paying*
attendees
> > > > > will show up because of him?
> > > >
> > > > No, no one is going to make a decision to attend based on the
keynote
> > > > alone. Nor are they going to make that decision based on the party,
> > > > or the lunches, or the material of the t-shirts. But if you miss the
> > > > mark on any one of those things (and thousands of others), the
overall
> > > > conference experience is less than it might have been, which
translates
> > > > directly to repeat business.
>
> Ah...  that's right...  I keep forgetting that Interex isn't really a
group
> of users or even a group providing services to a group of users.  IMNSHO,
> it looks an awful (and I use that word very purposefully here) lot like a
> company that sells various services like computer conferences.  BTW, is
> Interex a non-profit entity or a for-profit one?  I would have guessed
it's
> non-profit, but it sure seems to act an awful (There's that word again.)
> like a for-profit enterprise to me these days.
>
> > > If you can't quantify it, then that leaves the question: why?
> > > There are only a few possible reasons for spending $20K on a speaker:
> > >
> > >    1) the speaker has a hold over you (I doubt this one)
> > >
> > >    2) you think it will increase the value of the conference for
> > >       the attendees *by an appropriate amount*.  (I.e., add enough
> > >       value to justify the cost.)
> > >
> > >    3) you think it will increase sales of membership (again,
> > >       by at least an appropriate amount).  (Or a combination of #2 and
#3)
> > >
> > >    4) you get ego-boo from holding a conference with a "big name
speaker".
> >
> >You apparently missed my point. I'm not going to restate it.
>
> Don't be too offended, Greg, but apparently you missed the point, not to
> mention leaving out "IMHO".  Of course, you are quite welcome to your
> opinions even when they are wrong.
>
> "What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? Shun
> wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what "the stars
> foretell," avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind
the
> unguessable "verdict of history" -- what are the facts, and to how many
> decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your
> single clue. Get the facts!" -- from "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long" by
> Robert Anson Heinlein
>
> >Stan, with all due respect, Interex is a multimillion dollar business.
> >I suggest you leave the management of it to the people the Board
> >has hired to do it and quit trying to micromanage something you
> >clearly don't understand.
>
> Greg, with all due respect (and I realize that hasn't been overflowing in
> this particular document), Interex ought to do so what it's membership
> expects it to do.  And somehow I think Stan still counts as one of
> those.  Apparently that won't be true this time next year and that's a
huge
> loss for that portion of Interex and it's members with an interest in
> things related to MPE and the HP[e]3000.  On the other hand, I'm sure that
> if you were to decide not to renew your membership when it expires that
the
> multimillion dollar business known as Interex will be disappointed.
>
> "All men are created unequal." -- RAH (same as above)
>
> P.S.  One of the things I've learned is that strong words shouldn't be
said
> rashly.  The hours I spent between beginning this reply and editing it
took
> much of the edge off my words, but please don't think my mild response
> means I don't have much of an opinion on it.  :)
>
> --
> Jeff Woods
>
>
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