This is in response to Mr Rosenblatt

He said -

Since the arguments I made
originally were based on political reasons that this war is wrong and not
the moral ones why every war is wrong, I am ready to cede every point.

I say -

Well, OK, but I think you have ceded every point for the wrong reasons.
Since the points you made were based upon presumptions which contradict
reality.

He said -

As I have said, on numerous occasions, my main objection to this war is that
it is war. I am opposed to all war. I am especially saddened by wars that
are nothing more than a cheap excuse to show who has more testosterone.

I say -

This is an unrealistic argument.  Without war there is no resistance to
oppression.  The only way what you can say is true is if you consider
it immoral to resist oppression by force.  This is why all pacifist
cultures have failed.

He said -

While preparing my response to Mr. Yokem, a thought occurred to me. It may
not be an epiphany but I realized that intellectuals, fight with "facts."
Not all testosterone battles involve weapons. My need to have a "killer"
argument is as morally reprehensible as the combatant's need to have a
"killer" weapon. I am no better than those I disparage if my all I seek is
to prove that *I* am right to the exclusion of others.

I say -

I am not sure how this is relevant.  If your claim is I am in some kind
of testosterone high for revealing the truth, then I do not know how you
arrived at that conclusion.

If your claim is that a position on an issue can be valid if based upon
untrue foundations, then I would have to say it can only be valid elsewhere
than this universe.

I will say that the United Nations, with the stated goal of world peace,
operates much like this, using 'facts'.  I don't have read on their
hormone level, but I have not seen any bloodbaths on the floor of the UN,
so it might be a better way.

He says -

My thanks to Mr. Yokem and others that have helped me swallow this
hard dose of reality.

I say -

Based upon this, I conclude you do not believe in the validity of the
unreal.  I agree.

He says -

I will continue to use the word Peace as often as I can. I do believe that
just reading, seeing and saying the word Peace has a power to bring Peace
into our lives. I may attempt to spread the message further if I can do so
without it being an act of self-aggrandizement.

I say -

You are correct, with the caveat that words alone are not enough.

* To join/leave the list, search archives, change list settings, *
* etc., please visit http://raven.utc.edu/archives/hp3000-l.html *