Since my post yesterday (not Cecile Chi's) seems to have caused quite a stir on this list, I'd like to make a few observations and comments.

1.  Having been an HP3000 user for over 20 years and been
     exposed to other platforms, including UNIX and NT, in my
     opinion, HP and MPE are the best....they win any contest 
     hands down. I am most definitely an HP advocate. I agree with
     Rich Holloway. HP and MPE are the best out there.

2.  I most certainly understand HPs desire to fix the pp5 problem. I
     respect their decision to prevent shipment of pp5 to more
     customers. My problem is with the decision to NOT ship 
     hardware with earlier versions of the OS. (I am more than 
     willing to accept such an arrangement.) It makes me angry, 
     frustrated and puts us in a bind. While I may understand HP's 
     decision, I don't have to like it.

3.  My purpose for posting late yesterday was to alert other users
     considering installation of pp5, not to start a panic. I think that 
     everyone needs to calm down. I only thought others should be
     informed and had not seen anything posted regarding the
     issue. IMHO, I'd give serious thought to delaying installation of 
     pp5. FWIW, I don't think the risk is worth it in the long run.

4.  I wish HP had notified the installed base of the seriousness of
     the problem. (Since we use Robelle's SUPRTOOL for the
     DBUTIL functionality, we simply renamed DBUTIL so that it is
     disabled.) Fortunately, our databases look okay.

I think it is time we move away from the panic and get back to some serious work. Panicking never solved any problem. My
apologies to the list for raising everyone's blood pressure. 

Cindee Bridges-Fowler                            [log in to unmask]
IMC Global, Inc.


>>> "Holloway, Rich" <[log in to unmask]> 10/08 10:39 AM >>>
I would like to throw in my two cents worth on this.

<Rant mode on> No I have not installed PP5 on any of our machines, but
even if I had I still would not go into a panic. I always keep the
previous CSLT for just such a situation (if it's man made - it will
break). Or if my machine was running fine, I would just keep a closer
eye on it and make sure my backups are good. Is it a pain to go back to
a pervious version of the OS? You bet it is, especially on five
machines. Would I do it to get that warm fuzzy feeling? In a heart beat.

HP with MPE has the best damned machines and OS on the market, IMHO. I
have played on other machines and OSes, I keep migrating back to
something that I can depend on; and that is MPE and HP. With the track
record for HP, I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

<Rant mode off>

Thank you, I feel better now.

Rich Holloway
Systems Administrator
Providence Health Plans
Phone: (503) 574-7457
Fax: (503) 574-8614
[log in to unmask] 

The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my company. They
belong solely to me.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Burke [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 7:06 AM
> To:   [log in to unmask] 
> Subject:      Re: Bug in pp5
>
> Joe and Scott both make good points.
>
> We've been on PP5 on a 959/400 production machine (525 concurrent
> sessions, 1GB memory, 105GB disc and several hundred TurboIMAGE
> databases) for ten days. We've seen the DBUTIL ERASE bug, but no other
> problems (we don't use DATEDIFF and our exposure to the Posix
> recursive
> directory purge problem is minimal). So, my head tells me there is
> nothing to be particularly concerned about. Still, my heart has been
> beating a little faster as I read the various speculations about the
> scope and nature of the DBUTIL ERASE problem. I can certainly
> empathize
> with those who are panicking since we are talking about the possible
> corruption of the life blood of our systems: our data. Bottom line: I
> look forward anxiously but patiently to hearing something official
> today
> so I can properly access the situation.
>
> John Burke
> e-mail: [log in to unmask] 
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Geiser [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 3:28 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: Bug in pp5
>
>
> Scott McClellan said,
>
> > I am sitting here, at my computer, at 12:03 AM just trying to get
> some
> > work done. Unfortunatly, my e-mail program keeps alerting me
> > that I have
> > new mail every few minutes. Everytime I check I see that it
> > 3-5 new messages
> > from users on 3000-L panicing about the PP5 production hold and data
> > corruption bug.
>
> <Rest of excellent post snipped>
>
> One last thing to interject here in defense of HP.  HP has *never*
> gone
> public about a bug until it knows what the hell is going on.  If Scott
> says
> that the bug is a high priority in the lab, it is.
>
> Since HP does not go public with bug details prior to them knowing
> what
> is
> going on, it serves several purposes.  First, fear and panic such as
> this
> (are normally) averted.  Second, HP makes sure that the information it
> gives
> is accurate.
>
> Case in point:  TurboIMAGE DDX problem.  HP *knew* there was a
> problem,
> but
> it was not officially disclosed until *all* of the details were known.
> This
> could have been disclosed earlier, but (1) it was such a corner case
> that
> the possibility of it affecting the majority of the user base was low
> and
> (2) it would have caused unnecessary widespread panic.
>
> So, take a deep breath, relax, and let HP turn out the most reliable
> OS
> in
> the industry, OK?  We all make mistakes, and when it comes to patches
> and
> bugs, HP does not even come close to holding the record.
>
> Lastly, I've been on PP5 now for about a week.  Nothing horrible has
> happened, and we've been working the hell out of it.  I'm not saying
> that
> those who have tapes, rush to load them, but if it were something that
> warranted a widespread recall, that the bug was so horrible, HP would
> have
> done something, like make an announcement on the subject.
>
> (After working with this company's products since 1979, one gets to
> know
> how
> they operate after awhile.  Of course, they will surprise you every
> once
> in
> awhile).
>
> Best Regards,
> Joe
>
> ==========================================================
> Joe Geiser, Senior Partner, CSI Business Solutions, LLC
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